BL3... Still Shocked

After several months of killing {a bad-guy} I am still somewhat shocked that Tanis was/is a Siren. Like DAAAAAMMMMNNN!!! I had to pause the game for about ten minutes after {the bad-guy} got killed. Even today, after having killed that bad-guy ten times already.

In my not-so-humble opinion, that makes up for that whiny adolescent in the game whose name shall not be mentioned.

Like DAAMMNN!!

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I wasn’t surprised even the first time. The kooky siren telepathy was a dead giveaway.

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Probably the absolute worst plot point in any Borderlands game is Tannis being a siren. She was already an iconic character and for no substantive reason they went full 10 year old fanboy fantasy ejaculation. It added nothing to her as a character. Someone just wanted to give her superpowers because they thought “Tannis is cool… Sirens are cool… OMFG what if Tannis was a SIREN!?!” Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. I’m surprised Zer0 and Marcus weren’t also revealed to be secret sirens.

Sorry for being ridiculous, I’ve just had that kept to myself for a while.

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I love how you censored who the enemy is, but not the supposed “plot-twist” of Tanis somehow randomly inheriting Angel’s powers.

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Just thinking of Marcus as a Siren makes me ROFL!!!

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Back when we were trying to guess why Tannis “is not what she seems” in the Battleborn easter eggs a few people guess about Tannis. My reasoning was simply because she was all covered up. Nothing but a practical solution.

But to be fair to the writers there are some things that give the choice merit:

In early versions of Borderlands the Tannis character model was meant to be a Vault Hunter, preceding the character model of Steele.

There’s a copy of her bio somewhere, ans she was the original Lilith, a scientist trying ro learn about the lore, and its impact on herself specifically.

There was a youtube video on it with a full breakdown of the character’s development and changes before varying stages.

Connecting that element seemed yo make sense to me, and I had the reveal spoiled, though I did agree with the guesses she was a siren in 2017.

I was thinking they were going to reveal, since the voice actor is the same, that Tannis & Lilith were the same person, with Lilith being a projection of what Tannis wished she could be, manifest by her powers.

That IS NOT the direction they chose to go. It would explain Tannis’s speaking up when Lilith would not, and disappearing at the end, as well as the murky original character origins being linked, as well as the later shared decisions regarding Angel’s chamber and Jack’s research.

I still have my suspicions about Patty.

While the Battleborn easter egg might be resolved by her being a Siren, Marcus’s warnings in BL1 are not.
His comments about her getting supplies somewhere off the commerce grid and something being unusual about her are, of course, well before Angel died and passed on Siren-hood.
Something was already hidden years before that, and still unresolved.

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I remember me and my friends talking about this when it was first revealed she became a siren. I hated that ‘plot twist’ because she was already an important character - it felt like she was made a siren because only sirens mattered to the story. Everyone else was just side characters.

Regarding that Easter egg though - an idea I passed onto my friends was that it was something to do with Eridians. The Tannis in 1 is so starkly different from Tannis in 2 that I wondered if she was some sort of descendant of the Eridian people - hence her disdain for humans and burning desire to learn more about the vaults. A mole, as it were, planted into the crimson raiders as a fleshy guide.

My friend even joked that she was the watcher we saw in the pre sequel and that Tannis was its human form - forever watching behind a human mask to make sure they were gathering vault hunters and sirens for the big war.

Not exactly a fool proof idea but I preferred that idea over the damn siren one.

I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face - Ava should have gotten Angels powers and we could have seen her grow and develop with them as well as give Maya a reason for taking her on as an apprentice. And at the end of the story, we see her finally grown enough to be an asset to the team. Character development !

If they really wanted to give Tannis an important role in that - when Maya dies, she takes over the tutoring of Ava.

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Yes, yes, but how much more shocking would it have been if Ellie was revealed as a siren?


Aw hell, did I just reveal the plot of the fifth DLC?

Here’s a thought:

What if Ava was meant to inherit Angel’s powers, but Tannis interfered with that in her pursuit of them? It contradicts Angel choosing Tannis, but of Ava was somehow who the “universe” randomly chose and Maya was aware, that would bring some symmetry to she and Tannis having to learn together. Ultimately Amara is now the most experienced Siren, Tannis is the most experienced Crimson Raider, and Ava is their charge.

@RavenOfArisia Marcus’s suspicions did create a lot of intrigue, even though he ditched then to try and spark a relationship with her in Robolution.

The answer to that question that fits the overarching story in one and the DLCs she appears in (Just Robolution) is that it was either Atlas, Torgue, Bandits, Crazy Earl or Hyperion that was supplying her.

I’m blanking on the posts I made about Marcus’s quips in the side missions insulting her, and if he excluded Atlas as supplying her, but:

Atlas knew her location, hence them imprisoning her in the Crimson Fastness after she sends you after Baron Flint under false pretenses (who worked for her in some unspecified capacity). They also had her Cl4p-TP in Old Haven, but I can’t remember if that is before or after Salt Flats.

In the Market Correction mission chain we find out that Torgue has been supplying Bandits unbeknownst to Marcus in Rust Commons, so they could have been supplying Tannis directly, or bu way of Bandits.

Crazy Earl & Tannis were already trading things, he having a pair of her undies, and a part of the Vault key. In retrospect Tannis knowing where all the fragments were implies the entire key was assembled previously and then parsed out to these people. Sledge, Krom by way of Earl, and we could assume a Janis Brother near the Rakk Hive. Fight For Sanctuary implies that Dahl via Hector and his Brigade originally found the Key intact in their mining operation. The logic would follow that it was then given to Tannis to study, and then disassembled and parsed out for favor & or supplies from the recipients.

The case for Hyperion is pretty straightforward:

If Angel is communicating with Vault Hunters, why wouldn’t she have been communicating with Tannis as well? Even without the retcons of BL2 Angel’s whole MO was steering people towards the Vault, and Tannis has been the closest to finding it. You could even make the case that Angel, purposely or not, contributed to Tannis’s psychotic break. Voice in her head and all.

Tannis is set up right outside Tartarus Station, which at that point houses Mr. Blake and seems to be ground zero for the Hyperion invasion gone wrong, where she’s unscathed, building her robot, having moved out of the eridian ruins in rust commons. Blake, and thus Hyperion operations on Pandora are just down the road, with Jack & Angel working on a clandestine pursuit of the Vault, the key of which is reassembled and being kept by Tannis.

It would make sense that Hyperion wouldn’t target her for violence until after the Presequel of she had been cooperating with them previously. Jack’s psychotic break would be the easiest explanation of why that happened.

Having a longer relationship with Hyperion would also establish a longer personal connection with Angel, which might explain further her directly choosing to give Tannis her powers, if that’s canon. They would have had years of knowing each other, Tannis sharing knowledge, and ultimately both holding a grudge against Jack for his torturing them to pursue his ambitions.


When you look at it as a whole, any of those could be canon, so credit to them for having world building deep enough to support multiple logical conclusions within the first game alone. If the rumors of a cut third act of the story missions is true, I really am curios what they tossed out since it skips directly from being Tannis-centric to chasing down Atlas.

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Another issue I have with Tannis getting Angels powers is the timing. It was presumed before that when a siren passes, their powers go to another host. Immediately. But throughout 2, we see no change in Tannis even though she - quote : ‘had to seclude herself because she blew up a washing machine by just touching it’. And then not only that, but given Ava’s age, we’re left guessing how long she had been an apprentice to Maya for. Because do we assume Maya could sense potential in her or is it a case of her powers called to her to take in Ava as a later inheritor.

It’s just very messy to me. I loved the idea of a siren growing up with their powers because it becomes a part of them and their personality. Lilith fiery personality, Maya having shifting moments of tranquility then chaos (I always felt that described her powers nicely. Lift them all - nice and peaceful then OMG ELEMENTAL DEATH), Angel being secluded and somewhat ignorant of human nature because she’s been pretty much connected to machines her whole life (isolated to the point she was desperate for companionship- betraying her father just so she could have someone to call friend )and then Amara embracing her powers to become a very confident and physically powerful woman.

Then with Tannis it just…felt weird to me. Like okay she had a relationship with an inanimate object? O…kay.

It was believed that the sirens before went years with their powers and grew with the hardships - being threatened, being manipulated and feared. Learning to deal with that trauma and grow with their power…

Then Tannis and Ava just ‘boop Got it! I’m awesome right?’

Feels super rigid to me. But as a DnD player, character development is always a big thing for me. So when things happen ‘just because’ it irks me :smiley:

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I brought that up on another thread, with the idea that Lilith was the initial recipient of Angels powers which, using Jack’s research they transferred to Tannis at some point, but the game’s timeline would make that sometime between Fight for Sanctuary and BL3. I tried to use the Telepathy power as an indicator because Angel had it, and after she dies and Lilith is captured, she now has that ability.

The problem with my idea is that it didn’t fit the timetable of Tannis’s seclusion to hone her powers. If telepathy was evidence of Angel’s powers, the transfer would have had to happen just before the first fight with the Calypsos.

So that power couldn’t be unique to Angel, but it’s nit common among the Sirens, even though all but the Calypsos have experienced it as a “receiver” of telepathic communications.

As for inheritors, at this point we can probably assume that Maya was chosen since the Lineage of Sirens is at least several generations deep there, with the Siren Queen having died in Typhon’s lifetime. For them to have libraries of Siren knowledge as well, I think it’s fair to guess each Siren that ran the order picked their successor when their time drew near.

Angel’s scenario looks more and more her powers were trapped in some manner not too different than Nyriads were in the Nekrotofayon Vault. Jack had the tools to suppress Siren powers, which he used on Angel & Lilith (But not Maya, which if made an in-game mechanice would have been made using Maya a great risk-reward character like Fr4g-TP). Maybe the data they retrieved from Helios was the means by which they freed her powers?

Who knows how long she was in the Chamber on Helios prior to BL2. I would guess up until TPS. It’s entirely possible that Ava is the only current Siren that was chosen specifically.

It’s possible Amara is so good because she was trained like Maya was. Given Hinduism & Buddhism affirm reincarnation it would make sense that her character’s native culture might seek out siren inheritors to elevate. Athenas represents a more Buddhist approach, their Siren being the Dahli Lama.