BL3 without anointments

So why not try to explain why?

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Enemies in BL2 are not spongy because of lack of anointments, they are spongy because they are spongy

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No offense, but that doesn’t make any sense. Yes, they are spongey because of their high health… it has nothing to do with anointments. But if you had anointments in BL2, it would provide for more build diversity and allow you to not have to rely on constant health gating in OP level content.

This is the case in BL3 because GB gave every class except Fl4k passive lifesteal. With Fl4k, how long you take to kill things does matter, alot of his regeneration is kill-based, and more importantly, he just doesn’t have alot of it, so his best survivability is to kill before you get killed. But that aside…

In my opinion, BL2 would have been better (end game) with anointments. I recently played some BL2 and was leveling up a VH… I am around 75 with Maya and things just take a ridiculous amount of time to kill compared to BL3.

Given 95% of anointments used in BL3 are for the purpose of buffing DPS, so basically you are just trying to say classes would have been better if they had more DPS in BL2? That’s a very odd argument - DPS can come from many things - COMs, Class Skills, Artifacts and of course in BL3, anointments. In BL1, alot of power was vested in COMs and passive boosts. In BL3, it was anointments. And in BL2 and TPS, this power was very much vested in class skills and synergy - which made it the most interesting game mechanics wise. Ultimately, whether you kill quickly or not just depends on how you best optimize and build a class. In BL3, that entails getting the right anointments (like say 200% Splash on a Flakker) while in BL2 that entails understanding what makes a class click and using the right COMs…

And it sounds like you are building Maya wrong - you really shouldn’t have problems killing things at base UVHM tbh with even a semi decent spec. Of course Maya’s DPS isn’t the best - she’s gonna take longer to kill truly tough enemies (bosses and Constructors) compared to say Zer0 or Krieg. But that’s of course but of BL2’s great class design - classes have strengths and weaknesses. Maya has probably the 2nd worse DPS of the classes, but she has the best survivability and CC to compensate. Krieg and Zer0 have far more DPS, but are more challenging to play. This I feel is far better than BL3’s class balance, where every class is basically an uninhibited power trip with little elegance or balance in design.

Playing well and building your class right in BL2 eliminates the need for a Grog. No class in BL2 except Melee Zer0 and Gunlust Sal really requires any form of Moxxi even at OP10 (let alone base UVHM). Maya least of all, so it sounds like you are playing her wrong. If you need any help with your build/spec, I will be glad to help.

If you don’t agree, tell me how many endgame builds you have in BL2 compared to what you have to complete all content in BL3.

Zer0: Melee, Hybrid, Shotgun, DPS Rogue/Killer, Stalker, Sniper
Krieg: Melee, Hellborn Reaper, Hellborn Mania, Barbarian, Crunch, PiP Toast
Salvador: Hoarder, Gunlust Monk, 5SO6 Launcher Spam, Gunlust Deputy, Brawn Deputy, Grenade/Tediore
Maya: Cat, Siren (Scorn/Ruin), Siren/Binder (Sub-Sequence), Queen Bee, Blurred Trickster, Nurse Tank
Axton: Soldier (Gunpowder), Soldier (Gemini), Grenadier, Rifleman
Gaige: Anarchy (yeah generally everyone agrees Gaige was kinda very flawed)

Obviously, not every build is gonna be able to clear ALL content. Grenade Axton most definitely isn’t gonna be able to take on bosses that resist grenade damage, and Salt Krieg won’t work well in sparse maps, or CA Zer0 won’t work that well in areas where enemies don’t have crit spots etc. But these builds can clear the hardest content so long as the game doesn’t absolutely flip them off.

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Fl4k does not need life steal to complete all content in the game. You’re best survivability with any VH is to kill before you get killed… I mean, that’s just how this game is… You kill stuff. Anointments do add to your DPS, so yes, they would benefit you significantly in all other BL games. That’s the whole point. Have you done a run on Digistruct Peak at OP10? It’s not fun and you must rely on health gating to survive. Anointments would help to eliminate that… Which they do in BL3.

I never said Fl4k needed lifesteal. Obviously he doesn’t. I was just pointing out how his source of survivability is his DPS.

Digistruct Peak is one of the easier arenas in the game to do without Moxxi (unless you are Krieg). You could make a case for Hyperion Slaughter or the Raids being borderline unfair, but Digipeak isn’t one of those things. Because it is so sparse, and allows for strategic gameplay. There is a reason why Brawn Sal, which normally can be pretty squishy (and is just generally a bad tank class), excels at it.

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Not even remotely true. I am not that great at BL2 but I have never had an issue completing the Peak without Moxxi on the following builds:

-Sniper or gun Zero
-Dual-turret Axton
-Any Maya build
-Most Gaige builds

My Deputy Sal build requires Moxxi, but there is a way to play it using the Brawn tree where no Moxxi is required. My Krieg builds also require Moxxi, and I am not sure you could do the Peak without it on him, but maybe better Krieg players than me can go non-Moxxi, not sure.

The point is that Moxxi absolutely is not required in BL2 for most builds in normal gameplay. For raid bosses, yes - most VHs need some sort of Moxxi weapon except possibly Maya, but even with her it helps.

Bringing it back around to BL3, BL3 also leans heavily into health-gating mechanics, but since there are not as many traditional BL raid bosses in BL3, you just don’t notice it as much. The raid bosses in prior games have had lots of nova/spike/AOE mechanics, and that kind of necessitates something to get you back above health gate.

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I’m sorry, but how can you say that “I like anointments because they add to build diversity” and “I took my exact same build I always use and just removed the anointments. The only thing that changed was the amount of time it took to kill things”, those two phrases to argument the same things are contradictory .

The anointment idea was quite interesting, the problem was the damage anointments and the scaling with them in mind, that way all other anointments that would add build diversity were completely ignored. Just for an example, try to use your “build diversity” with any anointment but the one with damage increase and see how long until you give up

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All I remember in trying to do peak runs is the amount of time it takes to kill things… Or with raid bosses… Not during leveling, but endgame stuff. It’s just not fun. BL3 gameplay is so much more fun.

BL3 does not really need any health gating at all. FFYL is all you need and the ability to quickly kill to get out of it. Or, in Fl4k’s case, their pet.

Most BL2 raid bosses where not fun to solo, which is how I play. Master Gee is just ridiculous and it seems you always need some kind of glitch or special gear combo to make it even happen. BL3 doesn’t have your similar raid bosses, with the exception of the upcoming one, but all the endgame content, to me, is much more enjoyable. Proving grounds are fun… CoS are so much better than what was in BL2 (for me)… and the TT’s offer a much different experience than your typical raid bosses in BL2.

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Um, I can play through all of TVHM without anointments with my current Amara build. It would just take more time and be less fun. I’d give up because of the added time to kill things, not because it was challenging.

And anointments to add to build diversity in BL3. They allow you to use many different types of setups that can clear all content in the game. But it’s not just the anointments, of course… The skill trees help, obviously. My whole point with anointments is they reduce the amount of time it takes to kill… and that leads to a better gaming experience. BL2 is much more bullet spongey at end game. It really is.

Actually it is, and if you are using as base of your argument the fact that it is easy to get because you can cheat, your argument is completely invalid. If you can cheat a poorly implement mechanic, of course that mechanic won’t bother you…

Honestly this topic should be closed, this guy opinions on anointments are based on the possibility of cheating to obtain them, there is no point to this kind of discussion.

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I agree with most of what you’ve said here. I have never personally cared for raid bosses very much, so I don’t care as much that BL3 hasn’t had a ton of them. They are cool, but I much prefer the Peak and Takedown style of endgame content.

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Raids in BL2 and BL3 are kinda a different beast. With BL2, they were designed with an obvious intention to make it incredibly unfair for a player to take on solo. In order to do this, there was alot of artificial difficulty - Raids had massively inflated health and pretty broken movesets. In BL3, Raids were designed to be more accessible, and generally, they are just bosses with a little more health and elaborate design.

For me, I do like that BL3 made raids more accessible, but in doing so they also made them less special. I mean TTD Wotan and Scourge are just kinda memes even at M10, I never had to struggle and learn how to beat them. In BL2, I feel raids were a little too inaccessible - but because they were so difficult, I remember feeling great satisfaction when I finally beat Terramorphous and the Dragons with Zer0 at OP8. No content in BL3 really does that for me.

I feel BL2 could have benefited from having BL3’s ‘normal’ and ‘true’ difficulty for raids, so as to make them killable for more players. Contrarily, BL3 could benefit from a genuinely difficult boss - potentially the upcoming one could fit the bill.

But I fail to see how anointments would have made that huge a difference either way. Anointments are just another way to add DPS to your class - BL2 already has class skills, gear, COMS and BAR. Why raids in BL2 require healthgating mechanics is because they are intentionally designed to be far more difficult, something anointments wouldn’t have fixed.

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@darreltan2004 Not that I am surprised, but really great post and breakdown. I agree with your thought process and what you have said here.

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Wow, dude… So because something is available you automatically assume that it’s all cheating… Bro, you need to dig deep and look into your own soul to come to terms with how you view people you know nothing about. My point wasn’t to validate cheating, as you put it. But that anointments would bring a better gaming experience to BL2. In order to test my own builds without anointments, the quickest way is to simply remove them. From a purely testing standpoint, there is no wrong in doing that.

If, however, I were to compete in the couple of gear hunts that are going on, I would follow the rules to a ‘T’. But yeah, go ahead and make assumptions on a game that isn’t used in a competitive tournament for any type of cash prize. :roll_eyes:

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It really comes down to how you feel about the time it takes to accomplish raids in both BL2 and 3. There was no real added difficulty to killing raid bosses in BL2. It just takes longer. And if you feel more accomplished in doing so, that’s awesome. But that takes a lot of the fun out something when it takes 10-15 minutes to kill something as a solo player. (for me anyway)

There are many people who still can’t complete the TTD’s in BL3 whether it’s from gear accessible or skill standpoint. Some builds in BL3 don’t require any skill to use, only that you have specific gear. Yet you can also have builds that do require more skill and are less dependent on the gear you have.

In the end, it comes down to level of enjoyment the individual gets from a game. From my experience, I have had much more fun playing BL3 than 2… I’ve put twice as much time into 2 as well, so it’s not from that perspective. Fun is subjective. BL3 has many more options that 2 and can be objectively more fun because of that. Hopefully BL4 will bring what’s best from 2 and 3 and give us a truly great game.

You can’t deny that BL2 would not benefit from anointments. It most definitely would. It would bring things more on par to BL3 from a strictly solo perspective… not to mention from a farming perspective, too. Quicker killing leads to faster farming. Faster farming leads to you getting the gear you want more quickly. Who wouldn’t want to get the gear they want faster?

There are speed kills of every raid boss in BL2 that make them memes as well. But the difference here is that in BL2 you relied on glitches to get those done… for the most part.

interesting. I clearly don’t pay as close of attention to it as others. . As long as I found the Bee or DPUH at the level I wanted, I was happy. For me a game like this is an escape from the daily grind of work–just want to shoot or blow up things. if I have to think too much my head will explode.

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now here is the thing
annointments = slag
mayhem = op lvls

the way to get through it is retty much the same, so rly the only way to make the game better would be to get rid of OP or mayhem, as those are the main issue
and instead change difficulty in a different way

i mean bl 2 op lvls give enemies % dmg reduction, + hp, i mean it rly boils down to gbx trying to increase the time to make a kill

and as i keep saying
the result will never be worth it because
annointment or slag, both will make mayhem / op lvls irrelevant,
however they will gatekeep most weapons and combos down to a narrow selection of
it works
it doesnt work

and if it works there is a new issue
suddenly it will undo the need to have mayhem / op lvls

i think anoints in bl2 would AT BEST put slag on every weapon, so the only way any gear is viable, is if they have a slag annoint on them
like 300% vs slag
after actionskill / during actionskill 100% slag
and so on

so you rly dont make anything better, suddenly the game becomes even more grindy and even more frustrating to get through

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@Bigredtarheel Well man, I definitely hear you but don’t understand your particular “middle of the road” way of life. :grinning: The way I do things is either 110% or 0%, so anything I get into, I REALLY get into, or else I just don’t do it. So I kind of play Borderlands the same way, as a min-maxer.

And yes I have a full-time job as well, I just sleep very little generally and play the crap out of video games while the rest of my family (wife and 3 kids) is asleep. So my gaming gets done either when I use my treadmill, or later at night.

My point is that I nerd out about anything that I am into, especially Borderlands LOL. I guess that’s the way I escape - refocusing all my mind and effort into something OTHER than daily life. So some folks like you just like to blow stuff up, and I nerd out about the whole thing - Borderlands has a little something for everyone LOL!

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While I agree that Mayhem = OP levels… I can’t side you with you when you say slag = anointments. Slag is just one effect. Anointments range from life steal to dps increases, etc… Totally different and adds to the build variety we see in BL3. Additionally, while slag was pretty much required to get through OP levels, you don’t need anointments in BL3.

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