Borderlands 3 and Leakers

What’s up?
So, as some of you probably have already heard, there is a very strange situation going on with the YouTuber SupMatto and Take Two. We don’t know anything concrete except what SupMatto says in his statement. So, please reserve your judgement. Here his statement for context: https://youtu.be/gRR-C1OCIWM

My question now is the following: How do you see “leakers” and what do you think about people leaking stuff, especially in the context of Borderlands 3? Do you think that people like SupMatto hurt a game or does it profit from them?

My perspective: Quite a lot of leaks generate hype around a game and therefore function as free PR. Sure, if we knew every bit about problems going on behind the scenes, then some wouldn’t buy a game. But overall I think that many of the dedicated leakers should be seen as free PR and therefore treated as such.

How do you see it?

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They take BL3 too serious. Its a freaking video game which has no meaning in the World. Not important at all.
Dick move

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I have seen both the video you linked above and another video summarizing the situation.

No offense, but I don’t find the questions you pose relevant to the situation. The relevant information appears to be that a major corporation (Take 2) found personal details of where someone lives, sent people to their house, filed false copyright claims on their youtube channel, and likely a false takedown request on their Discord.

Whether you, I, or more importantly a major corporation decides someone (not an employee or contractor/creator under an NDA) who posted publicly available information is a “leaker” or whether that “leaker” is helpful or harmful, that should not result in an attack on their online platforms (which their livelihood may depend on) or attempts to intimidate them in person.

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Sure, for obvious reasons, what Take-Two did was and is wrong, but I personally just can’t understand what Corporations see as dangerous enough to go after someone that leaked something. Yes, there are exceptions where it needs to happen (broken NDA’s or leaked personal info/contracts), but 90% of the time leaked info helps a game and its visibility more than anything else. Also, it isn’t the first time 2k and Take-Two did something like this, the shut-down multiplayer mods for GTA V and the leaks about RDR2 from a british website come to mind.

BTW: Why did they go after SupMatto and not after one of the other Youtubers that show leaked info? Did Matto know something that made him the priority target?

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Trying to discern the motives of extremely wealthy people and/or boards of corporations isn’t worth your time imho, which is why I don’t find it that relevant whether the information is helpful or harmful. Instead, I think the focus needs to be on their despicable actions. Who knows what made them go after SupMatto as opposed to other youtubers who reported the same thing. Perhaps his channel was bigger, perhaps a google search turned up his name first, perhaps someone at Take 2 had a grudge against him from some past incident, perhaps perhaps perhaps…What we do know is ordinary people have little recourse when corporations file takedowns on these largely automated digital platforms and now we know they are willing to go even further and send people to their houses to attempt to intimidate them in person as well as digitally.

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That’s not a new tactic for Take-Two.

https://www.pcgamer.com/take-two-reportedly-sent-private-investigators-to-modders-home/

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What they did was absolutely illegal, but due to corporate structures there will be no one to make accountable. And thanks to the way law systems work in parts of the world, people without money won’t stand a chance in court. There is little we can do.

I wanted to hear other people’s opinions about the ways people like SupMatto are treated. If we think about the other side of the coin, we can see how CDPR handled a leak from a journalist that made recorded sound public despite being asked not to do so. CDPR basically just said that they are disappointed. I for sure don’t see Take-Two doing so, but a letter would have done the job. “Please stop using unintentionally released footage or we’re forced to take legal action”. Would that be scummy? Yes, but it wouldn’t have been outright illegal and inhumane. Fortunately the whole situation is blowing up right now. It for sure won’t make it much better, but at least there will be backlash

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I don’t want to hear leaks. I want to be surprised, shocked, happy and sad as an unknown plot unfurls as I move forward through a game.

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Understandable. The whole plot of Final Fantasy XV was spoiled for me that way. Story-related leaks aren’t a good thing most of the time. I prefer leaks about gameplay and functionalities.

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one of my coolest plot surprise experiences the past few years was discovering with my friend that “The Fyrehawk” was actually Lilith. The Fyrehawks//Bloodshots war. :slight_smile: good times. DAMN … that plot twist was so cool! Granted… we didn’t know much about the Borderlands universe at the time so fooling us wasn’t too hard. But , damn… it was fun.

if something like that got leaked… that would suck.

Ariel Helwani got himself in trouble with the UFC for revealing a surprise they had for people that Brock Lesnar was returning.

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I think Take-Two is mishandling this. This is not the hill they want to die on.

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This is outright idiotic in how they handle this. What do they need 10 months of investigation for? And how has SupMatto hurt the IP or it’s content creators? If they knew for so long, why didn’t they fire off a warning shot in the form of a letter laying out possible repercussions?

Also, I fear that the way they did all this hurts the franchise more than SupMatto ever could’ve.

Edit: They also don’t seem to understand how the community works either or else they would’ve chosen a different approach. It’s very shortsighted

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Well, if you remember, he leaked some stuff last Fall that was , as we now know, accurate, although at time, I was skeptical. So, he wasn’t just leaking stuff that was found publicly - it seems like he had an inside source.

And this is part of the reason that I say that they’re mishandling this, because it’s being framed in public as “He did a vid about some screenshots that were publicly available on Twitch and then Take-Two made copyright claims.” Take-Two is trying to defend that to the public, which is just verifying what people are bent about.

If there was a leak from the inside, that’s GBX’s responsibility or 2K’s or whoever was employing the leaker (Rooster Teeth, now, probably, is my guess). Instead, they pull the trigger on SupMatto after he does a vid about publicly available screenshots found on Twitch, which is a bad look, for sure, and now they’re doubling down on that.

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I personally think that Gearbox should cut ties with 2K and go with another publisher.

Like Devolver.

But yeah, that situation is seriously messed up. They were overreacting and being overzealous.

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Yeah, they have the right for legal action as an NDA has been broken, probably by an employee of Gearbox. But it should be clarified first, why they take legal action and against what party. If what SupMatto said is true, and my gut tells me, it is, then Take-Two/2k should have gone at it from a completely different angle and just let it be handled by lawyers.

Edit: I need to clarify that I don’t know the US law and how and in what way SupMatto would have crossed the line of legality by talking with someone that is under NDA over disclosed info. It might be possible that SupMatto indeed did something strictly illegal, but I don’t know about it.

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It doesn’t make sense to me, I don’t think any of the leaks for BL3 have really been a big deal. After the first reveal, most of them are just confirming educated guesses that you could come up with from trailers, interviews, etc. Like the pictures from the FL4K stream - it wasn’t news that FL4K would have separate pets and action skills, you could figure that out that on their character page online.

The most revealing leaks were like 8 months ago, cause the game wasn’t announced and we had people giving loose summaries of the playable characters and stuff. But did supmatto do anything that would remotely warrant this kind of response back then? I’m pretty sure the playable character info originally came from that video by rooster teeth’s the Know

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I think what’s missing here is that Take-Two, in doubling down, is claiming that ANY image belonging to them or their associates (GBX) is a violation of copyright and they have the right to make that claim to platforms like Youtube and Discord.

Essentially, they’re saying that ANY Youtuber, any content creator on any platform can be subject to copyright violations at the whim of Take-Two. I don’t think the gaming public is going to buy that, whether or not they have a legal standing to do that. Essentially, ALL Borderlands channels on Youtube are violating copyright, Take-Two just ALLOWS them to do that until Take-Two wants to shut them down for whatever reason. I think they’ll do much more PR damage with this take, but that’s what they’re going with, I guess. It’s really imperious and authoritarian of them, and that’s just not going to fly among the gaming community.

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The issue here is not whether you, I, or anyone like or dislike leaks. I really don’t like leaks, but lots of other people do…So guess what, I didn’t watch SupMatto’s content because I wanted to avoid spoilers, same reason I avoided that first 14 minutes of bordlerlands 3 thing that was going around…Other people who wanted this information did watch it…

The issue here is Take 2’s actions in terms of sending people to his house to intimidate him and removing his Discord over false claims of sharing hacked information. Youtube’s own notoriously weak copyright protection rejected 6 out of the 7 claims Take 2 tried to impose.

@Enderborn1, we don’t know if Gearbox is involved in this situation or not as they have not commented and the representatives sent to the guys’ house were from Take 2 (as were the youtube takedown requests, it’s not known yet who terminated his Dischord). Gearbox may be involved or they may not be, there’s no evidence either way at this point and I hope some journalist forces them to comment on the matter.

@Tracer Gearbox cannot just cut ties with Take 2 even if they wanted to, they signed a contract long ago giving them (Take 2) exclusive publishing rights to the entire Borderlands IP, not just game by game.

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We don’t know for sure as Gearbox hasn’t commented on the situation yet, but let’s be real Take-Two is known for pulling off dirty tricks like that. I’d bet my money on the fact that Gearbox probably hasn’t got anything to do with this (and that’s coming from someone with a very big love-hate relationship with the company, for reasons I can’t say or else I’ll get banned again).

But yeah as you said better just wait for Gearbox to comment on this to know for sure.

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We can only hope that some of the bigger YouTubers see this and take a stand if need may be.

Regarding Gearbox’s involvement we can only assume that SupMatto isn’t protecting them when he said that all that wasn’t coming from Gearbox. But if we think about it and about how carefree we can discuss leaks in this exact forum I don’t see Gearbox as a part of it.

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