I agree with most of your post except this point. I am absolutely willing to bet if you threw a poll up asking whether it was correct to make the modifiers non-optional and non-selectable vs allowing players to choose which modifiers they want (and whether or not they want them at all), the latter would win in a landslide. I wouldn’t call this a niche argument specifically, I think it is a pretty legitimate concern, that will only grow larger over time as the shine of the new mode wears off.
P.S. I don’t actually want to throw such a poll up yet, because I think it would be premature to do that before we know exactly how this thing is going to work and have experienced it ourselves.
It’s not like the person I was responding to has the actual ability to stop people from being negative, and Noelle and the mods seem fine with it so long as its civil. So that’s kind of a moot point. At any rate, I never said ‘people weren’t allowing negativity’, I said it’d be senseless to…and well, sense prevails. If you agree that negativity should be allowed, then I see no reason you would find disagreement with my post.
If you feel you should try something first before you can discuss it, well we could all obviously be fine with that- you can just pop back in tomorrow once its out and let the rest of us continue discussing he tidbits we know. This thread is an open discussion for a reason though, so there will be preliminary discussion of what is revealed in the preview in some shape or form. That is, in fact, the intention of this thread to start with.
I’m not sure why you’d even pick out bits of my post when the core of the discussion was me feeling that people who are airing their grievances in a civil and well-argued manner don’t deserve to be insulted or talked down to.
I could do a whole derail on language choices affecting how much attention threads (and therefore polls) get, but the general point here is we do not speak for the entire playerbase. We never will. As much as all of us disagree, we represent a very engaged, moderately (to very) Online™ segment of the playerbase.
Arguments to speedrunning are niche by default, because even “mainstream” acceptance of things like speedrunning are, uh, well, they’re niche. I love all the Games Done Quick stuff, and anything relating to that scene, but it’s not a core part of what people in general perceive video games to be.
The same goes for “I don’t like any modifiers at all”. The game is full of them. Legendary items are guns with modifiers beyond the usual. Guns that don’t obey regular rules. Guns that don’t make sense. Action skills have modifiers on top of modifiers, and it’s still to this day unsure if you’re meant to stick with a set build, or keep swapping out your AS addons (as they’re free and can be done whenever) as the situation requires. There’s so much in this game (and a good amount in BL2) that doesn’t relate to Mayhem but does relate to randomness.
Maybe Mayhem is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back, I don’t know. If that’s the case, I still understand. But I still don’t think it’s a hugely prevalent opinion.
Nobody deserves to be talked-down to. I just didn’t like the assumption that negativity of any sort was somehow being disallowed. For anything else, I’m close enough to backseat moderating as it is, which is why I didn’t get involved. Sorry if you felt it wasn’t fair to point out.
noone forces you to use a specific gun to play the whole game, or a specific augment
thats all things that you decide to equip and play with it
modifiers are put onto your game session and you cant do anything against it but rerolling for a less annoying combination
The thing with selectable modifiers though, is that it would take probably less than a day for a “meta” to be figured out by the players. Why make a bunch of wacky and fun mutators if no-one will play them, except for the four “best” ones?
Presequel to the rescue (again): the better loot modifiers are attached to random mutators each time (Cortex arena offering the good chest for different mutators each round).
Some might argue that if you really want to encourage players to play with different mutators, this isn’t enough - I say it’s just the right amount. People fixated on having the best possible drop quality, or who like randomly changing up gameplay, will play all the mutators; while people who prefer a more consistent experience can get it, for just slightly worse loot.
same thing is going to happen in this situation
people will roll for the “meta mod combination”
same thing is happening with gun parts and anointments
its just harder to get
modifications are now officially part of the lootpool
Well, I guess, but there’s actually several things in BL’s design that are a “soft encouragement” towards the intended experience rather than an enforced rule. Selectable mutators would kill their intended experience (different craziness going on every few minutes).
Also, with four active mutators, it might actually be pretty hard to get the exact four you want. Maybe you settle for three good ones and a fourth acceptable one. This way, more mutators get played even if they aren’t perfectly balanced.
(Other examples: limited bank space, to encourage just using what you find; refusal to add gun crafting, gun levelling, to encourage heading out looking for new stuff rather the perfecting the same handful of guns)
not working
i am using the same gun with 4 different elements for my build and i am just farming my ass off to get all these rolls :v
because thats a looting game
Well, that’s you, with a lot of time to spend on farming in BL3. I don’t think that many people do it though, or have the time. I myself just play stuff that’s fun for me and see what drops randomly, I have barely ever farmed a gun in all elements, let alone really hunt for specific anointments in BL3.
RNG in general is another one of those “soft encouragements” I was mentioning. Yeah the hardcore playerbase will just farm until they have every good variation of a gun, circumventing the whole idea, but RNG makes itso the rest of us just play with more or less what we find.
thats the point
there are different target groups playing this game
and you should always respect all target groups
and completely throwing off the balance of the whole endgame (MH 1-10) is kinda disrespectful to the min maxing and theory crafting crowd
For the record I don’t like the way mayhem 2.0 sounds either, I’m just saying that straight up letting us choose modifiers is not such a simple decision. It would basically mean you have the balance the modifiers, and even if you’re a dev team that feels it can do it, it kinda stops you from doing the crazy, fun, but hard to balance stuff that was probably your actual goal at the beginning.
korben44
(Master of the Pearl of Ineffable Knowledge)
#399
I think that’s more of your opinion. I’m a hardcore player of BL3 and I am looking forward to Mayhem 2.0. I’m also into speed runs, now. But will have to adjust because of the new Mayhem levels. And I don’t really care… Because we, as BL players, have always adapted to new content and found ways to min/max it all. And of course, I don’t see any difference (other than the number of modifiers and levels) to the current Mayhem system. People keep talking about Mayhem 4 as if it didn’t have modifiers and was pure increased enemy HP, armor, and shields. They overlook the fact that every time you spun up a session in M4, you were given a random modifier and the enemy was. So what’s the difference starting tomorrow? More variation and increased difficulty. And it sounds like some of it will be fun. I can’t wait.
as it was mentioned several times, earlier
MH3 was horrible, MH4 a step in the right direction (still with random modifiers that sightly throw off balance) and now MH2.0 is again a step back in the wrong direction
more stuff that makes it impossible to have an even ground to compare skills, items and builds
as i said. its a funny idea and it will give many people a good time in borderlands
but there are also people who want to keep it “pure” without any abnormalities
for me, it would be enough to just “enable”, “disable” them all together
and about selecting, as i said, people will just hit the reroll button until they get what they want = selecting them-slow mode
I think most players are much more concerned about any sort of highly intrusive modifiers - we just want to play the game vanilla. And if you want to play at M10, which I’m guessing most of us are, you are gonna be dealing with 4 modifiers. I’m pretty sure the Easy ones would be tolerable and the Medium ones would be indifferent (neither helpful nor unhelpful), but the Hard and Very Hard ones would obviously be intrusive, otherwise they wouldn’t have their namesake. As many have raised, since GB has made it so easy to change modifiers, they should have given an option to turn them off altogether, perhaps with the cost of worse loot.
Not trying to be that guy but Zane still needs to be looked at. I know he is in a good place right now but it’s only because of his overpowered class mod (seein dead). I’m not in no way complaining but I’m just worried about his gadget scaling. Drone needs to do decent damage while having godly support which the support comes from the augments (which honestly hope they buff for mayhem 10). The radiation augment needs to actually have an effect on enemies like slowing them down more and attack less and the shock augment needs to do high damage to shields. The missile barrage augment needs to get a complete rework honestly it’s very useless and it seems so cool :(. The barrier is fine but the clone is what I’m most worried about. The clone should be able to tank a bit and do a lot of damage in mayhem 10. I just hope it scales correctly. I hope this makes sense.
The hardest level should be a challenge for the best players…thats kinda the whole point. You want easy? Play M4-6 or something and let the higher lvls be for the better players…I hope to be around M6-M8
This still leaves room for ones the are not the “best” and are just “second best”, as I mentioned earlier. A player might not like, say, Big Head mode as much as Low gravity, but he might get sick of rerolling for exactly the four mutators he wants (that’s quite a lot of RNG, depending on how many there are total), and settle for three out of four, plus Big Head Mode. This way, BHM sees play, and the devs don’t need to worry too much about balancing Big Head Mode vs Low Gravity.
I’ll finish Knoxx and Claptrap DLCs first, then go for it.