Borderlands 3 Mayhem 2.0 Explained

Their metrics should have also showed them that the general player didn’t like Dominance, yet it found it’s way onto a class mod…
I’m not too sure why they favor making some changes based on metrics over others, but let’s just say that I doubt their use of metrics will actually lead to a more fun game as it stands currently.


I’m curious what’s a near equivalent of CURRENT MAYHEM 4 to the Mayhem 2.0? Probably Mayhem 2.0 level 5.

wrote this

Also do we assume a level 57 Mayhem 2.0 at Mayhem 1 Cutsman is far weaker versus a level 57 Mayhem 2.0 at Mayhem 10 white gun?

I agree people will play it–I’m not in favor of it but will still play it b/c I like to try and collect the best version of each legendary. I just don’t like making certain items only available at certain levels and as someone who bought the season pass I feel ripped off b/c the quality of the DLC is so poor and feel as if they are spending their time on these interim events/mayhem 2.0 and not the things some of us already paid for.


So there’s gonna be Mayhem 10 CLASS MODS?

So far only weapons.

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i think, there arent enough class mods or relics to lock them behind mayhem levels

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It’s really weird that they don’t lock higher Mayhem Levels behind some trial or something. I mean I nearly died irl while blasting through 10 OP levels in BL2, but… There are so many Mayhem Level that will never or rarely ever be played, because they presumably will be skipped. Being by exploiting cheeky methods or just because the scaling is too flat.


also presuming that some people will stick with MH8 just because it has less modifiers? like, nope?
everyone wants the whole cake, everyone wants to play on the top
noone will ever care for MH 1-9 again, after getting mayhem 10 gear

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My Zane is ready to farm guns for my Moze :slight_smile:


Fl4k isn’t assault man, u know, he like(basically)a sniper or scout, high DPS on NPC and get them killed by his pet. u played the wrong style of this VH.

A lot of games doing it doesn’t make it the best way to solve a problem.

Also, notably, a lot of games actually change AI behaviour depending on difficulty. Heck, the first Crysis game had a wonderfully emergent set of difficulty settings that on the highest level made all the AI enemies speak Korean instead of English.

Scaling attributes like health (and shields), etc, are just one piece of the puzzle. M4 has been complained about incessantly since they brought it in, despite it literally being rolled out as a halfway measure. The ability to roll our own modifiers without exiting the map has been a common community request. The worries about that making it too “easy” for some players is fine, because that’s the entire point about Mayhem. To go at your own pace. You’re still going to have to deal with all sorts of modifiers enabled at once in higher levels of Mayhem 2.0 so rerolling is only going to get you so far.

I’m not confused, or acting like you said something “profoundly earth-shattering”. Don’t put words in my mouth, especially if you’re going to throw around words like “disingenuous”.

My point is simple. Relying on scaling enemy health pools to weapon DPS is boring. There’s no need to extend it infinitely. It’s just more of the same grind, exactly the same grind. That was the major complaint about OP levels - you kept doing the same thing over and over again. Conversely, Mayhem 1.0 didn’t go far enough. It was too easy to get all the way up to M3 with some of the more overpowered Legendaries. Mayhem 2.0 is a compromise of both those systems.

Enemies in M4 are absolutely bullet sponges. The health, shield and armour modifiers go from 150% / 200% / 200% in M3 to 850% / 1000% / 1000%. That difference is staggering, and worthy of being called a bullet sponge. The trade-off is you lose some of the more randomness in the modifiers, which is an okay trade. But that doesn’t stop the enemies from being bullet sponges. The baseline in M4 is akin to getting two of the worst modifiers on one damage type (Normal or Elemental), along with the max buff modifier for enemy health, shields, etc, at the same time, in M3. Only worse, because it applies to all of your guns.

I’m not saying this makes M4 impossible. I’m just arguing the definition of a bullet sponge, as for some reason you don’t think enemies in this difficulty qualify.

You don’t like Mayhem 2.0, like I said, this is fine. But before we go any further, are you even willing to listen to arguments why it’s an improvement? It seems like you’ve made up your mind, unfortunately.

If you got this far, honestly, I appreciate it. I didn’t plan on letting the post get this long, sorry.

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Make the modifiers optional. It makes no sense that anyone that want to progress to higher difficulty’s but don’t want random modifiers have to gamble until they get modifiers that don’t affect them before they can play. It’s just a ■■■■ system that doesn’t benefit game-play experience at all.



I have no idea what your build are , but if you are struggling to kill enemies at M4 at level 57 then there is something wrong with your build. I play as Moze (hardly the highest DPS VH) and the difference between when M4 first came out and no is night and day. Even the annoitned enemies which if you search my thread history I used to complain about incessantly due to being bullet sponges are now nothing more than minor annoyances .

So I disagree 100% with literally every thing you said. I VERY much enjoy tougher enemies that can last longer against me as my builds get better. I derived a ton of satisfaction struggling with M4 at first and thinking its impossible, then months later now feeling that nothing in the game I cant beat. This to me is the ultimate enjoyment I can get out of a game , but you want stuff like floor is lava or weapons having less accuracy and handling to keep your interest, I guess , while i want a good old fashioned pure shooter experience where I test my ever improving builds against tougher enemies.

Fun little fact : back way before IB got his level damage scaling buff, I was shot down repeatedly (and insultingly) by some people on here when I suggested they can fix IB by simply adding damage modifiers with each level increase. I was called an idiot and dumb " and increasing his damage isnt the solution!!". But guess what GBX did? Exactly that, and guess what ? It worked beautifully

Out of curiosity, are you a Fortnite player ?


Actually the most useful information we’ve got on this came out of the statement that current M4 is roughly the same difficulty as M4 in 2.0. But to understand what that means for higher mayhems we will have to use…math.

It seems reasonable to assume the scaling is multiplicative and now smoothed over all Mayhem levels. M4 applies +850% to armor and shields and +1000% to health, which means multipliers of 9.5 and 11.

That means each increase of 1 mayhem level applies a multiplier to enemy shields and armor of roughly 1.76 (= 4th root of 9.5) and 1.82 to health (4th root of 11).

Alternatively the HP/shield/armor scaling might
be linear, in which case the multiplier goes up by 2.125 units per level for armor and 2.5 for health. I find this less likely because this scaling actually gets less harsh in percent terms as the mayhem level gets higher.

Either way, this should tell you that you don’t have to re-farm every level - or even every 2-3.

If your current build is M4 capable, try it out on M5 when 2.0 hits. If it handles that fine, you’re playing M5 with M0 gear. Re-farm at M5 and your new gear will be able to cope with M10.

Then re-farm at M10. Done.

Yes, I’m assuming the difficulty ramp-up is smooth, but we have no evidence yet that it is not.

FWIW I’m not at all a fan of game-update-imposed re-farming cycles, but this is actually not as much of a grind as the OP levels in BL2 - especially after OPs 9 and 10 were released.

Objections to this argument that mention the Gunzerker will be disregarded.

That’s what I am saying . This is a single player game so why not allow players the option to turn off modifiers?

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I am so excited!!


Ok if you are trying to say he is not a high DPS character unless playing a sniper or scout, you are way off base.

I have 3 different Fl4k builds that ALL are in your face shotgun/assault rifle builds and he is easily one of the highest DPS classes in the game if you build him for it, and I never use his pet for any specific purpose unless I am playing my Gamma Burst build and I use him defensively.

He can easily destroy any boss in the game on Mayhem4 without an immunity phase in 5 seconds on either my Rakk or my Fade Away build, and my Gamma Burst takes maybe 15-20 seconds on some of the harder bosses.