Bring Back BL1's Gun System for BL3

The Borderlands sequels have been bittersweet for me. I heavily enjoyed the stories, the dialogue, and the interactions that the original was missing, but when I was playing the first Borderlands, it didn’t matter, because the hunt for loot was what kept me so addicted to playing it, and that’s what the sequels are lacking in I feel- the loot. Giving us legendary non-gun items was awesome, and I want to see more. The gun’s though, they were so limited in comparison to the original. So in BL3, please return to the original game’s gun parts system.

In BL1, the manufacturer was a separate variable to the gun parts. This meant that there were 5 grips/bodies/barrels/stocks/etc. available to each manufacturer. In the sequels, this is not the case. This severely limits the variety within each rarity level of a gun type. Also, this allowed legendaries to have even more variety in quality and rarity. I know there is some variability in legendary quality in the sequels, but there could be more. And I think most gamers are ok with “more”. It gives us more to hunt for.

Another cool reason to return to having manufacturer separate from the gun parts is because we could have hybrid guns. This was when a pearlescant gun also had a legendary part (though Pitchfork never gave us a skullmasher bessie hybrid, like, dude, c’mon), and we got even more variety and kick-ass weapons.

I also would love to see a return of skins as a separate and unique gun part. The sequels designated skins based on rarity level, and this further reduced the gun options. In BL1, I could find three legendaries with all the same parts, with only the skin differing, and get three different stats (leaning towards one side of a balanced set of stats) and looks to choose from. More variety, though I never found my Urban Corrosive Anaconda. I had way too many hours logged into the first game and never finding my holy grail gun just shows that with that level of diversity in loot, I still have more to hunt in that game, and it came out 6 years ago.

A return to these old gun parts would also give more naming options, which further altered stats based on a rarity level. This was why orange gun levels had three shades, from yellow to dark orange. More variety, more rarities, more guns. I would be happy to see the numbering system come back too (e.g., AR390). It didn’t change the gun stats, but did make identifying parts a bit quicker.

I think returning to the original gun parts system would be a non-issue because it would just give more variety, more loot, and that’s what this franchise is built on. Especially if GBX applies this same system to the non-gun items like shields and grenades. All it means is more items.

The more controversial part I would like to see go away is the sequel’s dramatic manufacturer gimmicks. The fact that many refer to these pronounced differences in manufacturers gun behaviors as ‘gimmicks’ should clue you in to the often ridiculousness of them. In BL1, manufacturers had different effects on the gun stats, but they were less pronounced; noticeable, but less. Dahl had the best RR, Hyperion the bast accuracy, Jakob’s, the highest damage, and so on. But if I wanted a burst shot rifle, I could choose a burst shot rifle from three different manufacturers. I wasn’t restricted to Dahl.

Moreover, give us back all the gun types of the first one. The sequel’s gun system had reduced parts, and reduced types. We had 2 types of shotguns, rifles, snipers, and pistols, plus revolvers. And eridian guns. Those useless (*mostly :stuck_out_tongue:) eridian guns. Please bring them back too.

TL;DR: Please make BL3’s gun system like the original by making manufacturer and gun skins separate and unique gun parts, bring back the additional gun types from BL1, and apply the original parts system to non-gun items too like shields and grenades. It gives us more loot, and encourages the hunt. And I wouldn’t mind seeing the gun gimmicks by manufacturer be less exaggerated. Thanks all for reading. Share your thoughts.

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I want Maliwan to make shotguns again so I can have a proper elemental shotgun build like I do with Lilith.

BL1s part system was lame af. You had 4 that were all just better versions of one another (ie 3 obsolete parts) and 1 special part. And your comparison to lack of parts was like really lame, sure theres only 4/5 part categories but since each manu made a part each weapon had like 36/45 parts total (actually equivalent or more options than the bl1 system, where you had barrel,stock,mag,element, sight and material which is still only around 35 parts). Linking manufacturers to parts really didnt limit diversity like your saying…YOUR more valid argument is more of an issue that special parts weren’t locked to the barrel, allowing cool stuff like ajax ogre and nemeses with invader scopes.

Lolwut the numbers in no way made differentiating things easier.

I honestly hated the gun system in bl1. You had eleventy bazillion guns, 99% of which were more or less the same.

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Those are fair points, BL1 did have more guns, even if a larger percent had minimal differences in stats. I don’t think this is bad, and it seems you do. Different strokes. The barrels are probably the biggest part, and true, the first two were basically useless, which makes sense because we need low level and crap guns so that every drop wasn’t just the best. That would shorten the game immensely. And while for most people it was a choice between barrel 4 or 5, i.e., more power or more accuracy, there were plenty of people that looked for barrel 3 for the elemental buff. I don’t really understand the elemental pool system of BL1, so I didn’t comment on it, though I know it changed in the sequels to a percentage based deal.

The extra skins alone would encourage more hunting for the cosmetic aspect alone. That was a factor for me. So we agree to disagree, which is cool, but calling my argument lame is mildly aggressive, and we don’t want any sort of argument here, just discussion. Thanks for sharing your side dude.

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Lips you are always posting stuffs i cant help but agree with. You are a mind wizard.

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Haha, thanks dude. Once I’m done with school I’ll use that title. Mind Wizard M.D. I am going into psychiatry :stuck_out_tongue:

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Know what? This seems like the perfect thread for me to summon @Mr_Sandman to. IIRC he had a really interesting way of combining the intricacies of the BL1 system with the distinctive manu gimmicks of BL2.

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My only trepidation about the weapon system in BL3 is that they’ll get away from pronounced manufacturer-specific mechanics. In BL1, I recall there being only slight variations between manufacturer’s gear, where in BL2 (and TPS for that matter), there is a big enough difference to add a full extra dimension to the gameplay. Regardless of how they decide to calculate weapon stats (tie the weapon gimmick to the material/body/barrel/skin/accessory/whatever), as long as there is a gameplay-altering difference between manufacturers, a step hasn’t been taken away from weapon variety. When you have a zillion weapons to choose from, every extra difference helps make it feel like a zillion.

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That elemental system was conveluded AF, I DO understand it but if it explained I would need more than a few hours and some change, and you’d STILL be confused as to WTF it does.

To be fair that skin comment is also kinda lame, because you had 2/3 Materials per manufacturer, but they were all the same across all boards (I mean this was also true in BL2 but it was tied to rarity and was only cosmetic, so it was different). I don’t know how many S&S bumblebee guns i’ve thrown out over my 6 years with Borderlands, but it was a lot.

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Grips are always locked to manufacturer in BL1, while in BL2/TPS it’s the body. The rest of the parts are more or less available to each manufacturer in all three games. Yes, BL2’s system designates manufacturers to each part (except the accessories), but in reality it’s more or less the same as the numbering that BL1’s parts have.

imo BL1’s weapon system was more lenient but on the flipside it was also far less balanced than BL2/TPS. There’s also the issue of the lack of control that BL1’s system has, which was part of why GBX had separate item grades/balances for each rarity in BL2.

I do like BL2’s system a lot, and I would like future games to base their system on it. I honestly disagree with your opinion that BL1’s manufacturer gimmicks were better; imo they were barely noticeable at all most of the time. I wouldn’t have even known them had I not played BL2 beforehand and listened to Marcus’s descriptions of each manufacturer in the gun vendors. If I picked up a Vladof shotgun more often than not it wouldn’t feel any different from a Maliwan or a Hyperion; in fact, sometimes the Maliwan or Hyperion shotgun would fire faster despite the Vladof’s inherent RoF bonus. BL2’s system fixed that: a Vladof gun would almost always fire faster than its contemporaries.

BL2’s system also (to an extent) also lessened the hierarchy between manufacturers that was present in BL1. Because BL1’s manufacturer gimmicks were all based on stats, certain manufacturers were naturally better than others, with Atlas, Hyperion and (to a lesser extent) Torgue being at the top and Tediore being at the bottom. The new gimmicks of BL2 removed that by giving each manufacturer its own niche: Tediore guns still had unimpressive bullet DPS, but they had a new function in chucking, which allows them to keep up with the rest of the manufacturers and for some characters, even kill raid bosses. Granted, the new gimmicks didn’t always work (cough Bandit cough), but the manufacturer hierarchy of BL1 was for the most part leveled.

One advantage of BL1’s system, however, is the higher number of “strange” parts that greatly modifies the gun’s behavior, such as the thumper mag, the carnage barrel and the masher accessory. Something that BL2 doesn’t really have that much of aside from the double pistol accessory and some AR barrel and accessory combinations.

So overall I think the BL2/TPS system is fine; what it really needs is more parts, especially of the quirky variety. That way there will be an even greater functional variation between guns than in the rest of the series thus far.

Also, I’m of the personal opinion that revolvers were never their own weapon type; they were just more differentiated than other weapon subtypes. They had no proficiency, they didn’t have an Underdome challenge, and Mordecai’s pistol skills/COMs affected all pistols, not just one type or another.

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This.
The number of weapon categories per manufacturer should be increased.
Torgue used to make fine SMGs and sniper rifles, why did they stop making them?
Maliwan and Dahl shotties would be awesome.
And boy do we need Tediore assault rifles back. Even if they fix the AR category, I’d still like to see Tediore make ARs.

A couple of manufacturers would also be welcome in BL3.
Maybe even weapon categories (crossbows anyone?).
And please, no more bandit/scav stuff.

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in bl1 you could kill bandits with any gun you found, i leveled up to 69 without
grinding for a special gun with all characters
in bl2 you had to grind for a bee or harold to kill something, DP was impossible
without grinding for hours for special gear
also AR weapons were useless in bl2 (like eridian in bl1)

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I would like to see both systems! Like three types of legendary:yellow for the unmerged weapons that can merge with others, orange for unmergeable legendaries with special effects and dark Orange for merged weapons like they were possible in borderlands 1.
In addition to that, gbx could reinvent the old elemental System for separate raritys like dark purple (dark purple could be the rarity for smasher pistols, carnage shottys and so on, too) and could keep the percentage-based system for other guns. Maliwan should have both systems!
This way we would get all possibilities and kinds of guns.
Endless fortune of farming ftw!

Oh and we could get bosses with both, designated legendaries and the chance for random merged legendaries!

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I’m kinda with this I don’t want bl2’s system we already had that for 2 games, I don’t want bl1’s system because it all felt the same to me. If I have variety I want to feel it.

I hope they make a new gun system and use the best from both worlds. Both systems had advantages and flaws. Learn from history and make something new and better.

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My dream system is this:

Manufactorers:

  • Hyperion
  • Tediore
  • Dahl
  • S&S
  • Vladof
  • Atlas
  • Bandit
  • Torgue
  • Jakobs

Weapon Types

  • Light pistol (Hyperion, Tediore, Bandit, S&S, Dahl, Maliwan)
  • Heavy Pistol (Torgue, Jakobs, Atlas, Bandit, Maliwan)
  • SMG (Maliwan, Hyperion, Tediore, Dahl, Bandit, Torgue)
  • Assault Rifle (Hyperion, Dahl, Tediore, Bandit, Atlas, Vladof, Torgue, S&S)
  • Shotguns (Jakobs, Hyperion, S&S, Vladof, Dahl, Maliwan, Bandit, Torgue, Atlas)
  • Sniper Rifles (Jakobs, Hyperion, S&S, Maliwan, Atlas, Bandit, Dahl, Vladof)
  • Launchers (Torgue, Vladof, Tediore, Hyperion, Bandit, Dahl, Atlas, Jakobs)

Parts (unique models for each Manufactorer)

  • body 1-5, sets base stats
  • barrel 1-5 , determines accuracy/damage modifiers
  • sight 1-5, determines zoom level
  • stock 1-5, determines recoil modifiers
  • mag 1-5, determines Mage size and reload speed modifiers
  • assesory 1-whatever, gives strong boosts, elemental is here too
  • grip 1-3, gives a variety of bonuses/negatives
  • Prefix, determined by stats, like in Bl1. Gives +/- stats
  • Title, same as prefix
  • material, doesnt do anything, but it’s determined by the guns title (this allows bl1s system of legendaries being a unique part on a gun, but also allows legendaries to have unique skins)

How it all works

It works almost the same as Bl1, guns are peiced together from parts, but the major difference is Manufactorer uniqueness.

Instead a universal barrel/body 1-5, each Manufactorer has it’s own unique models and stats. So each Manufactorer never gets a part that doesn’t fit it’s theme at all.

So a Hyperion will always be accurate, but stats will vary wildly.

The 3 grips work like mats in Bl1, three tiers of exclempifiiny the Manufactorers traits.The difference, which I suspect @ACNAero was referring to was using these grips to give gimmicks to manufactorers without forcing it upon all guns.

Take Jakobs for example, instead of making all guns “fire-as-fast-as-you-can-pull-the-trigger”, have that be one of 3 gimmicks. Make it grip 3, have grip 1 be slow firerate but higher damage and grip 2 be ultra slow firerate (I’m talking 0.2-0.5) but give a ludicrous damage boost.

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I actually like the Bandit/Scav parts in the others brands guns. Tediore SMG and pistols with Bandit Grip are awesome for chucking.

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I like BL guns as I could use them longer and I liked how they felt. I also liked the WP way of improving my character over time. It was a good mix of simple, effective and fun while still being challenging. The last two Borderlands added too much complexity making the games harder, more complicated and less fun. With BL2 I was still able to have enough fun as the size of the game compensated just enough for other changes I did not like. TPS was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I am interested to see what BL3 brings but not committed to it.

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Tediore ARs in BL2 would’ve made Overload totally worth it.

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~Takes photograph of idea and erases post from everyone’s memory~
(this idea is borderline “Top Secret: For Your Eyes only” good IMO)

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Give us S&S again and I’ll be happy.

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