#42

Finally someone who can spell my name right!,

I mean ya, Cryo enemies, them badass cryo enemies must be fun to kill with the Elpis build and having to switch to another weapon that your com doesn’t support :stuck_out_tongue:

#43

I actually did a full play through with a Chronicler COM and cryo guns, and it’s honestly quite powerful when you know what you’re doing. I wasn’t actually using explosive with it… Just cryo and elements to match my frozen targets. ( a party line, a shock splitter and a corrosive Bullpup)

9/5 Tombstone is nothing to sneeze at, and as soon as you have a cryo DOT, the 200% crit bonus kicks in and things just melt. Add to that the damage bonus from the COM and it worked like a charm. (I also have the habit of aiming for crit spots both in and out of showdown, so that helped.

So inferior ? Maybe… Not much that comes close to the LC that’s for sure. But it’s not that far behind and it’s very fun :slight_smile:

Trying to cryo/splosive swap against a boss is awkward, but there’s more to a cryo build than that and once you’ve gotten used to it, it’s pretty efficient.

1 Like
#44

Flayer/LC, the jakobs build in general with my weapon choices just melts things far faster is all i was getting at, in terms of dps, the cryo/elpis stuff is like 5-10x slower dps on average than what i use, it just feels super super crappy when i was playing it compared to my other builds.

Believe me i know it works, but its just way slow, and having to swap weapons because your targets frozen and you need to maximize the damage from that is really slow as well.

I get the introduction of cryo is cool and all, but its just not as good as other things is what I’m saying.

#45

It’s not 5-10 times slower.

It can be that slow if you’re not used to it, but remember that you tested your build many many times, so you’ve gotten pretty good with it, while your test with Cryo/chronicler was a one time thing (or a FEW times at best)

Someone doing the same kind of optimization with a cryo build would have gotten quite fast with it.

It IS slower, but not that much really.

#46

Its only extremely noticeably slower when you come to a target that has massive HP (a boss, or badass of sorts), like i was saying, and yes maybe not 5-10x less dps, i guess that’s an exaggeration as i don’t have any comparison videos that are proper, but far less dps, i can prove it, but man, I’m tired of making videos at this point. Maybe one of these nights when i get around to it i will. I already have videos of all the Claptastic voyage boss kills with my flayer shotgun and LC jakobs build. So please tell me what weapons i should use in my comparison video for the elpis cryo build against Denial Subroutine / Eclipse/EOS and i’ll go out and kill them the way you say i should with Elpis com and compare the fight times. I can also go kill other super high HP mobs in the holodome badass round.

#47

Also in case anyone cares, this is from the Fire Rate testing that was done. Hopefully it wont be too complicated to understand.

The spreadsheet imply’s you empty the entire ammo supply except for the pistols, there was always 4 rounds left in the chamber after the final reload and i thought it dumb to include that in the test results. Meaning i stopped before the final reload occured, to clarify

2 Likes
#48

Also in addition please enlighten me, if Cryo is so good on its own, as akdere1 is saying, how is it that you have to carry around a fire, shock, and corrosive weapon in order to make better use of your “Cryo” build. Wouldn’t the point of focusing a build and com around Cryo be to use the Cryo to actually you know, kill stuff? And so if the things your trying to kill have too much HP, you have to freeze them first, then switch to either your shock/fire/corrosive weapon in order to actually do good damage. I know its true because if you use only Cryo, it just does not work very well dps wise. And if your going to use corrosive/fire/shock with Cryo, your honestly better off just using the Crapshooter com because you will get more dps out of the Cryo weapons and far more dps from everything else. If i tried to kill Eclipse/EOS using the BEST cryo weapons in the game, it would take an eternity and i would be scrounging for ammo with every weapon i use because the dps output of cryo alone is horrendous. Then if you want to be able to actually do the fight without so much ammo scrounging and weapon swapping and using different elements other than Cryo, you once again may as well just have a Crapshooter build, because the dps will be far better than using the Elpis com with non Cryo weapons. I guess i’ll go make more videos when i get a chance. This out to be comical.

For the record and as a comparison to Cryo my Jakobs build can kill Eclipse in 15 seconds flat with a Flayer, I don’t count the Pitchfork’s that can break poor Eclipse in 11 seconds, those things are soo op. And adding up actual time engaged on EOS for each phase that’s another 18 seconds, I could use two fer Maggie’s, the Flayer, or Luck Cannons and kill EOS in 6 seconds per phase with my build. Probably other things as well I just haven’t tested with all guns. So were talking total time fighting Eclipse/EOS 33 seconds. That’s some crazy high dps. Now I have a video of me using only Cryo with the Elpis build similar to mine for the most dps possible out of that com, using the BEST Cryo weapons available it takes 98 seconds to kill Eclipse, JUST Eclipse! I have the entire fight recorded its like idk just under 7 minutes to kill them both, Using Pitchfork / 3 splitter maliwan, Bullpup and dual Glitch’d Vlads all Cryo.

My build doesn’t struggle with adaptive chimeras as well like a cryo build would, my build has no ammo issues unless you really wanna abuse the Flayer, but the Striker is a close second to it. Food for thought.

#49

@charrisx Your line of reasoning reminds me of BL2 days when players would argue the superiority of using any one of several broken as hell combination of weapons and skills e.g., Pimpernel and Chain Reaction, Bore and level 1 Repeater, Bee and Sandhawk, offhand RL and Pimpernel, etc., throwing points into every DPS skill possible and calling any other build and combination inferior because it doesn’t kill ■■■■ as fast.

2 Likes
#50

The most glaring part of that chart in my opinion is the bullets per second while looking at the fire rates.

#51

Well, just because I love pizza doesn’t mean I want to have it 3 times a day forever :stuck_out_tongue:
Cryo is great, and the fact that it doesn’t do EVERYTHING doesn’t change that.

Besides, I have 4 gun slots…might as well fill them with other guns.

I used cryo about 90% of the time, switching to the other elements only when faced with a boss, a badass or when I ran out of ammo, so they were not “necessary” per se.

if a gun has to be able to do everything in the game on it’s own to be good, then there is only one good gun in the whole game: the Luck Canon.

Like I said previously, All your tests were against EOS, but EOS is not the whole game. Sure, cryo doesn’t fare so good against a boss with a total of 4 shield bars…it’s kind of a bad match. But that specific test doesn’t mean that Cryo sucks all the time.

We covered this already: Cryo doesn’t work for you ? that’s totally fine, but some people play differently. I tried your Jakobs build! it’s great! …but I can’t kill EOS nearly as fast as you do… So should I conclude that your build is not as good as you claim ? Of course not.

get me ?

2 Likes
#52

To be fair, I tried to test fire rate on the field back in BL2, and it’s a freaking nightmare.

testing damage equations is easy because you get a straight up number to show up when you shoot a dummy, and you can control all the variables.

Fire rate testing has to rely on clocking, rounding for frame rate drop, toying around soft caps…

All this, with an ultimately unknown equation (I know @Charrisx calculated all the bonus he used as additive…but we can not be sure that they really are… we’re working with a lot of unknown variables)

So for what it’s worth, I think the chart is GREAT work, all things considered

#53

It’s enjoyable as hell seeing Charrisx and Chuck80 trade blows with facts not just emotions… No one Is ducking or dodging… Just taking them on the chin and firing right back… Oh and I have 2 separate Nisha’s for each of your builds. I enjoy watching the red dots in the mini map just disappear lol

2 Likes
#54

LOL

The thing is, I don’t even have a build that can play in the same ballpark as @Charrisx’s :grin:
Especially when it comes to taking down bosses. Hard to beat that speed.

Deputy Nisha is Obsolete since UVHM came out, so it’s a “leveling” build now.
The Toybox is a fun MOBBING build with a “Elemental shotguns only” gimmick. (and also, I felt like making a beautiful thread that’s fun to read)
And my splitter build is made with Newbies in mind and is “farming free” (No legendaries or uniques) again, for newbies.

I probably should make one though, but all the cool gimmicks are already called for :sob:

As for my CAPACITY at making truly powerful builds, I don’t have anything to prove anymore. :sunglasses:

3 Likes
#55

I know its freggin hilarious isn’t it, Its really funny because I also play mostly looking at the mini map because stuff just dies so fast, its just become a game of point the triangle towards the red dots and watch them disappear lol.

1 Like
#56

I really haven’t ever thought you need to prove anything to me, i feel like you have a lot of knowledge and i have learned plenty from our debates on things lol, Just your really adamant about Cryo like some others in the forums and I am obviously against it because i like stuff to die quite ridiculously fast with the utmost ease :smile:

#57

This is false mainly because my build kills very very fast with numerous different Jakobs weapons not just one broken one or combo, so to say that i have some broken combination of weapons / skills is a bit un-fair because it has everything you need and can work well with any decent Jakobs gun. Now if because i kill so fast your calling my build broken well then thank you, I have broke the game apparently with my super awesome dps build.

#58

And for the record @Chuck80, @Sljm, and @Ha_Na are people I have come to really respect on the forums here because they take the time to argue intelligently about things they are knowledgeable and passionate about. Also they don’t just spout crap they seem to know nothing about like some others :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes
#59

If you fail to see the brokeness that is Nisha with Tombstone+Trick Shot+Aimbot+OP Jakobs gears and claim that as some reflection of skill or anything remotely original, there is no point in arguing further. You’ve been antagonistic from the start and the act is getting old.

1 Like
#60

You gotta admit though that it would be MUCH slower without the Luck Canon. It has synergy with most Jakobs guns, but the Luck Canon really sets it apart. Yes, your build is pretty broken. That’s a good thing. I enjoy breaking games. That’s a theory crafter’s ultimate goal and you did it. :stuck_out_tongue:

What @BookEmDano is saying is that there is more than speed to a build, and as long as the benchmark for a build’s VALUE is “It took me this long to kill boss X with it, therefore it’s good/bad/better/worse.” then the discussion is only gonna go this far.

As Einstein once put it
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

A bit extreme, but you see my point. :slight_smile:

Likewise, if you judge the whole idea of a Cryo build by it’s ability to take down EOS as fast as possible, then it will always look bad in your eyes, but you will have missed something interesting :blush:

#61

Pretty sure Dano is just saying that Nisha + Tombstone + Trick Shot + Aimbot + Jakobs weapons is just broken and a child could use the build lol.

I can argue the fact that Jack has much brokenness, even Claptrap has some really broke stuff he can do too that’s op with the right combos.

So because I have a massive mixture of all the right skills and weapons my build is broken and I am to be harassed? I think not, quit acting like a child Dano and leave my thread alone, its obvious your jealous of what my build can do and you clearly have nothing constructive to add. Its not my fault your build sucks, go cry to someone else about it. And hey good job on making yourself look like a child. Its amusing none the less i suppose.