All predeterminded spreads are determinded by time. As far as I know anyway.
Yes.
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Awesome… Axton’s my Lascaux rep at the moment, but I think we’ll let Zer0 play with it this evening and see what that’s like.
Also, gald to see you’re back.
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[quote=“Chuck80, post:18, topic:372116”]As for precision, it does help with fixed pattern weapons like the Kitten and Lascaux.[/quote]Can you (or anyone else) confirm this? I’m not seeing it (or it’s insanely slight).
Velocity and Precision DO affect the Kitten…but it is ever so slight
Tested two Fire Kittens at two different ranges.
Conclusion: A Kitten with 10/5 in both Velocity and Precision will land ALL shots on a man sized target at approx 20 meters. Severe Prefix might be a good choice.
BAR Off
Ferocious = Damage
Severe = Accuracy
Longer Range
BAR Off, No Mod, No specced Points
(Ferocious on the left, Severe on the right)
BAR Off Precision at 10/5
(Ferocious on the left, Severe on the right)
BAR Off Precision at 10/5, Velocity at 10/5
(Ferocious on the left, Severe on the right)
Shorter Range:
BAR Off, No specced Points
(Ferocious on the top, Severe on the bottom)
BAR Off Precision at 10/5
(Ferocious on the top, Severe on the bottom)
BAR Off Precision at 10/5, Velocity at 10/5
(Ferocious on the top, Severe on the bottom)
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That is a noticeable difference. I figured all weapons with fixed shot patterns would behave the same. The shot on the left is with no skill points or COM. The shot on the right is with +11 in Precisi0n (with 34% accuracy from the Shot COM) and +5 in Vel0city. Maybe the Lascaux is different? I mean, the pattern is a little more precise, but the pattern size seems to be the same.
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That’s weird.
Can you try from even further out so that any difference is more evident to the eye ?
What’S the prefix on your Lascaux ?
Or maybe it just makes the pattern more well-defined…as in, it curbs the spread from going outside of the pattern… but that would be very weird.
After doing an extreme zoom, that certainly seems to be what’s happening. If you imagine superposing a line drawing on top of both, the one on the right has the individual marks closer to the lines than the one on the left. This may be unique because of the size of the glyph that defines the firing pattern. Maybe try again with the Heartbreaker at even more extreme range?
Edit: seems pretty obvious when you zoom in close - look at the spread on eg. he head and neck:
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The thing is, with other guns with a fixed pattern, an increase in accuracy or bullet speed makes the pattern tighter rather than more precise.
My guess is that the Lascaux is coded differently than the other guns, which might also explain the complete lack of recoil on it: maybe it made coding such a pattern easier that way.
Regardless, AFAIK, the Kitten, Heartbreaker, Jolly Roger and Infinity all see an improvement in their pattern with an accuracy boost.
So smaller, all other things being equal?
I can quite see that. The Infinity, Hearbreaker, and Kitten all have very simple - and symmetrical - patterns you can describe with a relatively simple formula, allowing you to calculate exactly where the pellets are as the shot travels. The Lascaux is obviously a lot more complicated.
Precisi0n (as far as I know) does not affect the predetermined patterns at all. If the gun has any spread that is not within the predetermined pattern then it helps that. An example would be Johns DPUH experiments where the spread is the same but the second volley stays closer to the first one horizontally because the “aim area” has shrunk by what Precisi0n does.
To give a nice visual explanation of what I’m talking about equip a shotgun. The crosshair is round and basically shows the area that the pellets should hit. It can vary in size depending on the shotty. Precisi0n makes the area smaller. If you are spraying an AR imagine your crosshair was round like that and you get the idea (hopefully).
It does not however change the predetermined pattern if there is one. As far as I know precisi0n does absolutely nothing on any of the patterns but I’m kinda unsure because I keep hearing different responses.
Vel0city also doesn’t really affect the patterns but since all of them are determined by bullet air time it means that the pattern is going to stay tighter together for longer distance since it takes the same time to go there.
So if you are shooting a predetermined pattern gun like Kitten as a single shot from a very long distance, neither should do anything. Precisi0ns effect should help combat accuracy of rapid fire a bit making the bullets (or spread) go more towards where you are aiming at instead of causing the bullets to “sway” a little more to towards the sides and up or down. Vel0city keeps the pattern tighter up close further away than it would normally be. I don’t use Kitten so I don’t know if the bullet splits or if it just shoots multiple pellets to begin with but it should overall be a positive effect on the gun unless the bullet is a splitting one and you are shooting the enemy close to point blank which would cause you to only hit 1 bullet instead of, like, 18 or what ever it puts out.
Hope that makes sense.
@Adabiviak Am I the only one that notices that you made elks with your bullets there. Lovely.
You’re the only one who’s commented on it. But I honestly hadn’t realised before @Adabiviak’s post that the Lascaux made cave art patterns. I had always assumed that the name was simply a reference to it being found in a cave. Some of the other weapons with distinct patterns are more obvious (eg Blockhead); I’ve never gone around intentionally shooting guns at walls other than looking at the various patterns from the different Fibber barrels.
But yes, it’s a really neat thing. I wonder if anyone has collected all the different unique patterns into a gallery?
I think @johnrr6’s pictures are proof enough that increased accuracy will make the spread tighter, at least on the kitten. I wasn’t expecting it to change the behavior of the pattern, but to make it tighter, just as it would be if you were closer to the wall.
The DPUH is a different matter, as the fanning bullets are not part of a spread per se, but rather a different equation altogether. If you want to see the impact of increased accuracy proper on the DPUH, you have to compare using only the central bullet, as all the other are tributary to its position.
Trivia:
The Lascaux takes its name from the caves of the same name in France, where the largest collection of cave paintings was found.
The paintings (and the spread of the gun) depicts a horse rather than an elk, according to paleontologist.
Anecdote : It was found by teens, totally by accident 
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Whoops… I was on a, um, “brief sabbatical” for the last four days. 
What I imagine the weapons with these fixed spreads do is use “virtual” crosshairs. While your crosshairs remain as steady as you can hold them, these virtual crosshairs are randomly pointed directly at the lines of the pattern (as opposed to the center of the crosshairs for a ‘normal’ gun). When you shoot, the bullets automatically aim as needed to make the pattern.
If that’s the case, it would explain why accuracy buffs don’t really shrink the entire pattern, but do make the pattern much more accurate (as @VaultHunter101 pointed out with my Lascaux shots); the accuracy is being applied to the bullets’ trajectories towards their virtual crosshairs on the pattern, not to all of the bullets towards the center crosshair.
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I had no idea the rabbit hole went this deep…
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Seraph!
Welcome to my tiny corner of Zero fun 
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Updated the OP with a level 80 version
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Hi Chuck
Can you tell me if this build can work at op10 or if it’s a fun one like spunk’s kittenzerker?
Thanks
I have no idea.
It used to work at OP8 when it was made, but … If you test it, let me know 