#8

I like it, haven’t checked the details too much yet, but it looks solid.

I especially like the format of the OP, very well done :smile:

#9

Too long didn’t read.

But seriously that is an awesomely formatted build, all the sub headings and elemental icons etc…

10/10

#10

[quote=“Ha_Na, post:7, topic:94636”]
…
I was reluctanct about Safety First at one time, but it is like @Chuck80 said, sometimes staying alive and able to shoot things is better DPS than being a glass cannon and going into FFYL often. And the 44% explosive boost from the sapper easily equalizes that measily 15% penalty :smile:
Also, the shield subroutine really helps with the cryo utility on the Avalanche. You get hit by a badass, nova releases, everything gets frozen, shield gets back to full. Another badass jumps in, everything gets frozen again etc. It’s almost as good as Aurelia with her ice darts…[/quote]

OK – so I tried spec’ing into Safety First and what sold me, more than anything – got Meat Unicycle less often! I really hate getting that melee thing and it pops at the most inopportune times (the Sentinel? really?) Seems like Meat Unicycle is a response to low shield and/or health so makes sense it’d pop up less often with Safety First. Lovely!

#11

Maybe that’s why I almost never get the Melee package. And btw, the High Five’s 15% damage bonus will eliminate the -15% damage penalty of the subroutine, and you’ll still get all those 800+ % of OLT, and critting those on frozen targets will be 4800+ % damage (even more with Fuzzy Logic active)

1 Like
#12

Can you explain how it’s better than Tediore grip and Damage acc.?

#13

Sure, I’ve ran the calcs [here] 1 and it turns out that reload prefix + scav grip always does roughly 10% more direct damage, although at the expense of up to 20+ % more ammo consumption and at a 0.3s slower reload speed.

#14

Seems like it comes down to preference:

Bandit/Refill is more costly if you miss,but has more one shot potential.

#15

Yes, quite so. The reason I choose the refill prefix for this build is simple: the ivf is only an emergency fallback option for bosses and tougher, cryo resistant bosses mobs, so I’d try to maximize the punch of each throw. And ammo really is not an issue, chances are good that I can roll a gun wiz for an instant ammo refill when running low.

Same reason I mostly use the refill prefix on all classes but Nisha. Then again, the ivf is a sub-optimal choice for nisha most of the time :smiley:

#16

Minor nitpick and really irrelevant to the build (no real place for Best Buds here) – but, as far as I understand it there is a use for it as a solo player: “Also, extends FFYL and increases Gun Damage while downed.” I’ve always assumed this meant for self as well as teammates?

#17

I’d say it only works for self. But if not, I’d reassess it’s usefulness. Still, FFYL gun damage and duration is not quite relevant for this build.

#18

I moved a post to an existing topic: Thou shalt not dupe

#19

Um the -15% never gets like eliminated (I don’t think) It gets ~85%'d regardless

Edit: Just Maffed with my build at peak damage and u get like 83% damage by going off subroutine (With the opportunity cost of not getting the “good” subroutine), while the static “always has a defensive subroutine” (from your build) does 87% always, cuz the deduction factors in after all ur positive bonuses.

#20

check the linked formula in the OP

high five and defensive sub end up at

base damage * (1 - 0.15 + 0.15)  * rest = base damage * rest

also, with a Tranquility or Duality oz kit, I get another 37% gun damage, so even without the high five, it’s

base damage * (1 - 0.15 + 0.37) * rest = base damage * 1.22 * rest

“rest” being OLT, crit multipliers, elemental boosts, element matching.

At least according to the gun damage formula

#21

I don’t think it works in that way, from what I read negative damage works like the negative crit (Type C iirc) modifiers, where you’re dividing by 1+(Negative Boost) after tabulating the positive boosts, like so (Your extra bonuses from gear would go in the the bracket with the other positive gun damage boosts)

#22

good one, thanks. Got that part of the formula wrong then. I’ll redo my maths tomorrow :sweat_smile:

Then again, if I have 15% penalty, and 15% boost from High five, I get

                 1 + 0.15
dmg = base dmg * ————————— * rest = base dmg * 1 * rest
                 1 + 0.15

Any further gun damage boosts will proceed to compensate for that penalty, right? And by having a Tranq or Duality, the fraction would still be > 1 even without high five

1 + 0.37
————————
1 + 0.15
#23

Yeah I asked in a thread a longish time ago, and got presented with a similar answer, Its just basically a static 13% drop, which obviously could still be worth in the case of an OP shield subroutine combo. I think your gun damage mods are either 1.32 (on non OLT shots) or 8.29 (on OLT shots, that also gets calc’d inside the positive damage bonuses bracket iirc it’s additive not multiplicative). Now of course things get messy when you factor explosive damage and splash crit and the pellats and barf, But as far as your gun damage modifier it should be that.

((Gun Damage * (1.32 or 8.29) * ((1.3 + Type A) * (Type B) / (Type C))) + splash damage) * Elemental Bonus

Unless I’m terrible at interpreting @Wingsday 's maff

#24

It’s still always going to be greater then 1, i’m saying you lose ~13% damage from what you would’ve had without the penalty Like you see with your 1.52 multiplier (Oz + Hi5) You’ll get a physical damage multiplier reduction of .2 as opposed to .15 as originally calc’d

#25

something like that. Anyways, point is, that the 13% penalty from Safety First isn’t the world, and the the defensive boost and damage dealing assist by cryo novas/spikes is well worth it compared to the time you’d have to spend switching cryo guns/nades etc.

#26

Oh by no means is the -15% like a dealbreaker for the subroutine points, even if you were running damage subroutines, especially considering all your non-gun damage based damage sources ie nades and novas and IVF (Love your choice in parts btw), Just like pointing out that the damage penalty quirk.

While I’m here I wouldn’t mind asking why you like Organized Guns Are Happy, you seem to be runnning non-optimal parts on guns so the skill boosts it to 8 ish. I haven’t done much theory parting with Torgue shotguns but Tediore grips on them cut into damage (Btw How well do tediore grips offset the manufacturer reload). I’m thinking things like an Impetuous Ravager with a Jakob’s Grip (Cuz let’s face it with the increased spread and reduced accuracy I’m sure there aren’t many things that’ll get hit with all those ravager pellets) if that hits an 8 mag.

Just thinking out loud because I don’t like organized guns when you have to make your guns crappier to use it, as obviously it would benefit your non-shotguns that don’t need to hit the magic 8 ball exactly, or in the case of the Flakker 12 as ur never shooting that third shot anyway.

#27

Thanks. Gonna update the write up some time soon. Although, this build doesn’t perform too well in the Arena at diff 9 right now. Acid floor and long range badass enemies tear me up even with heaps of health and shield regen. They do die quick IF I can close the distance though.

Also gotta figure out something smart vs the Clapboss. Triple Flakking and Ackack spamming with a Ravager doesn’t seem too smart and takes a bit long.