#21

I don’t think it works in that way, from what I read negative damage works like the negative crit (Type C iirc) modifiers, where you’re dividing by 1+(Negative Boost) after tabulating the positive boosts, like so (Your extra bonuses from gear would go in the the bracket with the other positive gun damage boosts)

#22

good one, thanks. Got that part of the formula wrong then. I’ll redo my maths tomorrow :sweat_smile:

Then again, if I have 15% penalty, and 15% boost from High five, I get

                 1 + 0.15
dmg = base dmg * ————————— * rest = base dmg * 1 * rest
                 1 + 0.15

Any further gun damage boosts will proceed to compensate for that penalty, right? And by having a Tranq or Duality, the fraction would still be > 1 even without high five

1 + 0.37
————————
1 + 0.15
#23

Yeah I asked in a thread a longish time ago, and got presented with a similar answer, Its just basically a static 13% drop, which obviously could still be worth in the case of an OP shield subroutine combo. I think your gun damage mods are either 1.32 (on non OLT shots) or 8.29 (on OLT shots, that also gets calc’d inside the positive damage bonuses bracket iirc it’s additive not multiplicative). Now of course things get messy when you factor explosive damage and splash crit and the pellats and barf, But as far as your gun damage modifier it should be that.

((Gun Damage * (1.32 or 8.29) * ((1.3 + Type A) * (Type B) / (Type C))) + splash damage) * Elemental Bonus

Unless I’m terrible at interpreting @Wingsday 's maff

#24

It’s still always going to be greater then 1, i’m saying you lose ~13% damage from what you would’ve had without the penalty Like you see with your 1.52 multiplier (Oz + Hi5) You’ll get a physical damage multiplier reduction of .2 as opposed to .15 as originally calc’d

#25

something like that. Anyways, point is, that the 13% penalty from Safety First isn’t the world, and the the defensive boost and damage dealing assist by cryo novas/spikes is well worth it compared to the time you’d have to spend switching cryo guns/nades etc.

#26

Oh by no means is the -15% like a dealbreaker for the subroutine points, even if you were running damage subroutines, especially considering all your non-gun damage based damage sources ie nades and novas and IVF (Love your choice in parts btw), Just like pointing out that the damage penalty quirk.

While I’m here I wouldn’t mind asking why you like Organized Guns Are Happy, you seem to be runnning non-optimal parts on guns so the skill boosts it to 8 ish. I haven’t done much theory parting with Torgue shotguns but Tediore grips on them cut into damage (Btw How well do tediore grips offset the manufacturer reload). I’m thinking things like an Impetuous Ravager with a Jakob’s Grip (Cuz let’s face it with the increased spread and reduced accuracy I’m sure there aren’t many things that’ll get hit with all those ravager pellets) if that hits an 8 mag.

Just thinking out loud because I don’t like organized guns when you have to make your guns crappier to use it, as obviously it would benefit your non-shotguns that don’t need to hit the magic 8 ball exactly, or in the case of the Flakker 12 as ur never shooting that third shot anyway.

#27

Thanks. Gonna update the write up some time soon. Although, this build doesn’t perform too well in the Arena at diff 9 right now. Acid floor and long range badass enemies tear me up even with heaps of health and shield regen. They do die quick IF I can close the distance though.

Also gotta figure out something smart vs the Clapboss. Triple Flakking and Ackack spamming with a Ravager doesn’t seem too smart and takes a bit long.

#28

What formula are you referring to?

#29

In my calc formula, I had the gun damage bonus and penalty as (1 + 0.15 - 0.15), which is wrong. It should be (1 + 0.15) / (1 + 0.15), but in both cases the result is 1.

@Hoyle: Organized guns are for maxing out mag size of the Frigida, but more importantly to max out mag size on the IVF and Laser Disker. A tediore grip on the Ravager and Flakker ends up at mag size 8 and 12 respectively, and the reload speed is the same as with a torgue grip. Just the damage is slightly lower.

Added the fixed formula for the main gun in this build:

#30

Updated the write up for Lvl 70 and the DLC. Added lvl 70 vids.

I’m not entirely happy with the solo performance at diff. lvl 9 in the mutator arena. Any pointers on what gear or tactics I’m overlooking?

#31

It looks cool, but I still think the bonuses from OLT are additive gun bonuses, but I might be wrong

#32

ah, right. Fixed it, uploading new formula in the post above.

#33

REALLY loving this build! I can’t wait to try it out in the Mutator Arena–it’s been giving me trouble, and I feel like this build is perfect for taking it down.

Just a couple of questions/thoughts:

  1. I know Coincidential Combusition doesn’t synergize with our Torgue loadout, but could it actually be the solution to flying targets and whatnot? I want to try this tweaked build that takes advantage of that skill. It would allow our explosive damage boosts to be a factor when using non-Torgue weaponry. I want to see how it performs with say a T4S-R.

I’m imagining the Mutator Arena loadout to be something like:

Fridgia
Ravager
Corrosive Anarchist (Piercing rounds to skip the need to strip shields) for flying bugs/Viruses
Badaboom/IVF for emergencies

  1. Is the Fragnum a good choice for this build? It’s like the DPUH, right? Could it see use against RK5?

  2. I understand the need to have a very specific magazine size, but could it be worth it to spec less into Organized Guns in order to have matching grips on certain guns? The bonus to reload speed and damage would be nice. It hurts the IVF a little, but it shouldn’t matter since we’ll have more damage in our slot 2?

  3. Would you recommend sticking with just an Arctic Tranquility kit even for bosses? Or is the damage increased with a duality kit?

  4. What are your thoughts on 3DD1.E as a survival kit? It would let us nova more with the Deadly Bloom, and would somewhat alleviate the Avalanche when it’s down and we roll the Health subroutine. I think the damage from our main guns are already good enough that we don’t need an Oz kit boosting it, so why not have another survival tool there?

#34

[quote=“BL2_Player, post:33, topic:94636”]

  1. I know Coincidential Combusition doesn’t synergize with our Torgue loadout, but could it actually be the solution to flying targets and whatnot? I want to try this tweaked build that takes advantage of that skill. It would allow our explosive damage boosts to be a factor when using non-Torgue weaponry. I want to see how it performs with say a T4S-R. [/quote]
    According to the CC guide, you get a 35% chance to proc 115% of the weapon damage as explosive damage on non-explosive guns. My go to tactics against flyers are either
  • freeze them, make them fall to their death or turn into sitting ducks
  • dog fight. Just up, try to intercept their flying path, feed them a load of Ravager or Flak
  • My most hated flying enemy type is the Cryo Sera at the Holodome. Can’t be frozen, and move too fast for my shotguns. With the DLC and the Laser Disker, it works okay now, though.

My biggest problem with CC is, that it’s just an added proc damage, that can’t crit, and I’d need it only very few times when I fight cryo resistant flying guys.

Feel free to test CC out though!

Totally fine. It’s also good for replenishing the Avalanche during Health subroutines. But I wouldn’t want to miss the cryo utility from the Avalanche vs the Deadly Bloom.

#35

You havent responded to my question, now you got it wrong. Inside that pic you have, youve put OLT with gun damage bonuses, just like in the old formula, which is wrong. OLT is “total” multiplicative skill, it comes AFTER splash damage, which should be obvious if you use any Torgue gun / Flakker / Ravager.

#36

ooookay. Damn that old data!

Maybe I got your question wrong, I thought you were asking where in my OP I put the formula. Instead, you were asking whether I was using the old formula or not?

I’m a bit slow today, soz for that.

#37

Yes I was asking you if you refer to formula from the old forums. After ive done OLT analysis, it should be obvious that it is a multiplicative skill and not additive (like in the old formula).

#38

Multiplicative in the sense of a straight … x 8.8 right? Fixing my OP formula as we speak.

#39

11/5 is 9.8 multiplier. Just add it AFTER +splash damage)

#40

So my initial x (1 + 8.8) was right, just at the wrong place. Thanks!

This gotta be right now, third time’s the charm!