% Bullet Reflect is still not fun

I understand they have tuned the bullet reflect down from 30% to 5% but honestly any game with bullet reflect is still not fun. Players should not be punished for dealing loads of damage. I don’t know about everyone else but I still reload games with bullet reflect. I’d much rather any other modifier.

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If you strafe from side to side, or slide, you don’t get hit by the reflected bullets.

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Then maybe you should not

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I agree that it’s a mechanic that should be completely removed, but the 5% it is now is not nearly as bad as it was at 30%. The issue is that against Anointed mobs and other bullet sponges in Mayhem 3, 5% reflect can add up quick.

For me, this is one of the few times where playing Zane is an advantage, because as long as I keep Barrier up, reflect doesn’t affect me. If you’re not playing Zane, my advice is to either strafe as others have suggested, or reroll the Mayhem modifiers.

Hopefully at some point in the near future, Gearbox will implement some meaningful changes based on all the feedback they are getting about Mayhem modes. For now, all we can do is endure it, or take a break from the game completely.

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@DSGrant The shield definitely seems like a benefit, I understand the need to spec for some durability in TVHM M3 but with my current Amara 1 shot Monocle Bind build if I get unlucky and deal a 100k crit and it bounced back and kills me. Point being is that, yes, I could simply strafe, or I could even more easily reload the modifiers and have fun. And if reloading the modifiers is what allows me to have fun then it is poor design.

I cannot wait to see what they implement when they rework the mayhem modifiers I hope to see some truly crazy (but still fun) stuff. But I want to reiterate, we should not be punished for doing too much damage.

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I completely agree with you. And there’s an entirely separate topic discussing Mayhem modes where I posted a fairly long criticism about it there. If you haven’t already done so, you should add your opinion to that discussion.

Ohhhhhh. See. Now I actually understand the Reflect modifier. It’s goal is to go “this round isn’t for perch sniping”.

Meanwhile, Zane’s best damage in my opinion comes from moving fast and a lot so a barrier isn’t even required. But I guess if “Monocle Sniping Grasp” is your playstyle and you don’t wanna deviate, then rerolls are your best bet.

For me. Reflect means either moves to splash unreflectable guns, or move move move. :slight_smile:

I don’t have a problem with reflect, as I just strafe more, but I think the mechanic would of been more interesting if the reflect acted like a build up of stored damage on the target which was later salvo’ed at you in a volley of mortars (from reaching a certain accumulation of damage, or on death of the target) that came at a different angle than where you hit them from.

At 5% max, I can live with it. I don’t like it, but I can live with it.

I also don’t play with close range aggressive playstyles anymore because of it, though. At close range, strafing does jack all; inaccurate weapons that require close range also usually fire many bullets at once, meaning more comes back (shotgun, the maggie, etc); being forced to move while shooting at medium ranges and longer makes your aim worse, which for non-l33t people (yes they exist) can be super frustrating.

There are a lot of ways to introduce challenge and get players to mix up their gameplay. Bullet reflection technically does this but in a much more annoying and aggressive way than the other modifiers. Most of the rest of the modifiers come down to “no, you can’t play with that toy, play with those toys instead”, whereas Bullet Reflect is more like “looool why you hitting yourself why you hitting yourself noob”. It feels intentionally antagonistic on the part of the dev team. It may add challenge, but it’s also annoying and not particularly fun.

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try not to paraphrase responses please, he was helpful by giving an example of a good shield to use. sure he could have lost the other part out, but it may have been an attempt at humor.

" Be constructive- Instead of repeating a well-known meme, create or write something original! Avoid posting responses that don’t do much to further the conversation, especially if that response involves popular images or phrases."

DEV mode on: There is no well known or non well known meme, all memes and dank memes are great, humor is subjective and I might like something you dont, this is the borderlands 3 way DEV mode off

That phrase is annoying I am glad you blocked that guy comment.

Essentially Bullet reflect was intented to be the anti-camper mayhem modifier. If you are standing in 1 spot shooting at everything then you end up tagging yourself in the face. If you move constantly then you rarely get hit at all unless using a weapon with a projectile speed fast enough to nearly make it a hitscan weapon. I’ve mentioned this more than once in previous threads and I recall responses that essentially amounted to the classic MMORPG player with a DPS class saying “but my DPS”. One of the more specific ones being that getting the damage bonus from one of FL4K’s skills requires standing still.

Given that makes it possible for you to shoot yourself in the face it also works against glass cannons that can’t take a hit from their own weapon. Something I kind of feel a lot of people are running with given the amount of complaints by people over killing themselves at close range with headshots when they unlocked that final perk that caused enemies killed by headshots to explode.

Me personally. I never had any issues with bullet reflect before they nerfed the rate.

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That’s why i love the Firesale Long Musket ++ no reflect problems and at least with Amara it works great for everything, even if they have resistances or for anointed ones. But of course you need to go aggressive close range with it, but there are also other guns that can’t be reflected. I also tried it in the Anvil with tons of anointed, go up close, right into the face and strafe around them and they melt like ice in fire.

Maybe Gearbox will take it out for good in their Mayhem 2.0. For now I m glad they at least reduced the % to 5% insteads of 30.

I m with DSGrant on this…things are changing but until they do we have to endure. There are ways to avoid reflection modifiers. They are not the solution but they are an option thats open to you until things get “fixed”

edit: in the end bullet reflection is just a point on a list. there are a lot of mayhem modifers that are “not fun”

I treat this modifier like any of the weapon damage +/- modifiers. By that I mean I change my load-out to gear that is either immune to the modifier, or benefits from it. There are LOADS of ways to deal damage that don’t involve a projectile that can be reflected. LaserSploder, E-Gone, Bearcat, Flakker, Grenades, melee, etc. Try to utilize these weapons. Also, equip the Transformer shield. It has a 40% chance to absorb projectiles and return them as free ammo! Also, it’s 100% shock resistant and converts shock damage into shields. So, not only will reflected projectiles that do shock damage not hurt you, they’ll recharge your shield.

But then it would require a sub optimal build and they can’t melt everything in 0.6 seconds anymore so it ruins the game?

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There’s plenty of things to be irritated about with this game (technical glitches/frame-drops/crashes/deleted inventory/nerfing favorite items crucial to your build/action skills useless at end game), and (IMHO) this mayhem modifier doesn’t belong on that list.

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This goes back to my DPS player in an MMO. It tends to be the most populated class role in most MMO’s and a very sizable amount of them only care about how big their damage numbers are to the point they ignore everything else around them and get hit by things they should be able to avoid because they chose not to do fight mechanics as it required doing something other than damaging the enemy. Then complain about a battle being too hard or blame their healer when they die repeatedly because their DPS is 0 while dead on the floor.

In this game the complaints are literally over things that cause gaps in or impact DPS in some way. Mayhem modifiers that lower their output which often is a result of their own choices or things like the anointed militant that they cant melt in half a second because it can shield itself.

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I’ll try to not be salty, but I roll my eyes every new post like this pops up, Mayhem is about flexibility, if you base your entire build around one single playstyle and can’t be bothered with changing your loadout to match the Mayhem Masks, then you will struggle because the game will sooner or later roll unfavorable masks that you could solve by simply using another gun that doesn’t reflect back.

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