Butcher vs Heartbreaker

(Expectations are like fine pottery) #1

Im in a dilemma- which one would be preferred between the two, I’m curious to hear opinions

I’m at op8 and have been given a fire butcher by @GOODYEARBLIMP (thanks btw) and also was planning to get the heartbreaker

Now on one hand, the butcher has its special effect of the self-regeneration which comes in real handy with dps, whereas the Heartbreaker has a fixed spread pattern, making it easier to crit, as well as being a moxxi gun

The butcher I’m referring to is a fire butcher, so the element locked nature of the Heartbreaker is irrelevant

I’m playing as maya as well, so if any of her skills complement either gun more than the other, that would be interesting

I’m curious to hear what everyone’s opinions on the matter

(I ate the skag that ate my homework) #2

The Butcher will out-dps the Heartbreaker. Plain and simple! While it has fewer projectiles, it has a fire rate that rivals SMG’s, and on top of that you have the reload gimmick. If you’ve skipped most of the healing skills, then the Heartbreaker will naturally come in handy. But you’ve already figured those things out, so I guess it all comes down to which gun you prefer.

If you have some healing skills, then the Butcher is the obvious choice. Both guns will work well with Chain Reaction, but the Heartbreaker cancels out Immolate, IIRC.

(Guajiro Pandoreño) #3

Yeah, it depends on your build (and at OP8, it’s hard not to have something in Sweet Release or Elated (much less Life Tap), so unless you need the Moxxi feature of the Heartbreaker, the Butcher is pretty brutal.

(Is this thing on?) #4

Since you already have the fire Butcher, no reason why you shouldn’t also grab the Heartbreaker and take them both for a spin. I mean, you’ll probably end up agreeing with the others, but why not have a blast anyway?

(Expectations are like fine pottery) #5

Yeah, just killed blue, so I may as well

I’m not the greatest player tbh, so I normally keep a grog on me even though I play ruin scorn, but for the most part, life tap has kept me alive without it, just a few instances when I catch a dot without a kill

Also realised the butcher has a really tight spread for a shotgun (I’m guessing due to lack of pellets) so it is kinda easy to crit with it, even with only 2/5 accelerate

There was one thing I noticed, dunno if it’s just me, but sometimes the butcher doesn’t automatically reload when you’re out of ammo- I mean, I’m not Gaige and I don’t use tediore so I’ve gotten the habit of manually reloading prematurely, so it’s not too important, but has put in the danger zone before

(I'm not a real doctor) #6

I think Heartbreaker is the best weapon in the game (maybe tied with Corrosive Hail). I don’t know much about butcher though.

All Moxy set-up, heartbreaker, corrosive hail, electric ruby or chere ami and grog or slag rubi or cher ami.

You could do almost all the game needing to never change this weapon set-up.

(Yeti, deconstructed in 3 courses.) #7

I don’t think it’s just you because I’ve experienced this too. It’s similar to the Salvador-$shot-Inconceivable- possibly 5So6 as well snafu. In the case of the Butcher I think it’s because of the reload special effect being coded in a similar way to Inconceivable and/or 5 Shots or 6. It can be inconvenient, and a little irksome, but I generally think the upsides of the Butcher outweigh this one negative.

As to your original question, I’d say that @Ronnie_Rayburn hit the nail on the proverbial head. The Butcher will always (I try not to speak in absolutes, but I’ve never seen it the other way) out DPS the Heartbreaker. If you need a little Moxxi healing as a panic button there are probably better choices (cough-cough, Grog/Rubi, cough-cough), but it’s easily one of, if not the, best Moxxi weapons in terms of damage. It’s easier to acquire than a Butcher, so it wins in terms of convenience, but on Pandora the key to success is generally making things dead quickly rather than replenishing your health bar. Of course, this is my opinion based on my experience, so take it with a grain of salt. The best advice is always @VaultHunter101’s, take them both on little (or extensive, I prefer extensive) killing sprees and see which works best for you. :smile:

(I ate the skag that ate my homework) #8

Dead enemies will hurt less than live ones! This is actually the best health tip one can get!

(Expectations are like fine pottery) #9

After testing at fink’s, I’ve come to my conclusion on which I’d use: it depends on playstyle.

As far as my experience is concerned, the butcher suits a more aggressive, faster paced play with the superior dps, whereas the heartbreaker is better for a slower, more tactical approach with the crit bonus and the healing.

So, at the end of the day, for me, it just depends on how I feel like playing- aggressive or tactical.

Edit: forgot to put my spec, just for extra info
Spec: http://bl2skills.com/siren.html#324501000015135104512552510501
COM: mirrored trickster - 6 KR, 5 CR
Shield: antagonist
Relic: fire BotA
Grenade: op4 longbow 0 fuse storm front

(Darry) #10

Edit: forgot to put my spec, just for extra info
Spec: http://bl2skills.com/siren.html#324501000015135104512552510501
COM: mirrored trickster - 6 KR, 5 CR
Shield: antagonist
Relic: fire BotA
Grenade: op4 longbow 0 fuse storm front

i would move the 2 point you got in “helios” toward “Flicker” because “helios” activate before “ruin” so the fire damage of your phaselock doesn’t benefit from the slag that ruin provide (just a nitpick and you have scorn so you probably slag the enemies in advance)

(I ate the skag that ate my homework) #11

The issue i have with the build is this: How much healing do you really need?

5/5 in Sweet Release, Elated and Life Tap plus 4/5 in Sustenance PLUS the healing you get from 11/5 in Kinetic Reflection. With this much healing, you could almost take the place as the new test dummy at Marcus’ place. :rofl:

Seriously, though… That is a lot of healing, and it’s a lot more than you actually need. For any mobbing situation, but especially when running a Mirrored Trickster build. Here’s how I would build for Fink’s.


2/5 in Life Tap is usually more than enough, considering how much damage you deal in the OP levels. Same goes for Restoration. Sustenance is a nice enough skill, and when you play solo, you just move the points from Res and Restoration.

Even though you have KR, you still need to worry about DoT’s. The Antagonist is a great shield. It’s fast and has good capacity. But no shield is so good that it doesn’t need 5/5 in Ward. Inertia will also help you to push through those nasty DoT’s that you, no doubt, will catch from time to time. For general mobbing, you could move those three points to Suspension.

Wreck is a really good skill, and one of Maya’s main dps skills. 5/5 is recommended at all times, except when facing certain raids.

This is a pretty standard build for Maya, and it’s one that’s been proven to work really well. When you don’t run a KR-Trickster, you simply switch to 5/5 Suspension, and you’re good to go.

As a final note… As the OP question was “Butcher vs Heartbreaker”, this setup does not require Moxxi weapons at all.

(Expectations are like fine pottery) #12

It’s a habit I have on any game- normally prioritise survival- not that it’s always necessary, like you’ve said- hence all the healing skills

I do keep a grog on me, but cannot for the life of me remember when’s the last time I’ve used it…

(I ate the skag that ate my homework) #13

Played right, you will have little to no need for Moxxi weapons at all. The exceptions to this is the Peak and Raids, where you need the healing to be more or less instant. The ability to heal oneself is nice, ofc, but the ability to kill enemies before they have a chance to hurt you is even nicer. And the best part is that whenever you kill enemies, you heal yourself. Sweet, eh! :wink: