C0unter Strike?

So I’ve been toying with the idea of tweaking my build and just going full-ish melee instead of hybrid.
I know my preferences so I came to this

I’ve got 3 points floating around with 3 possible places I’m going to stick them, one of them being Counter Strike. I know most melee players have it at 5/5 but I’m honestly not sure how much of a difference it makes. 10/5 backstab executes kill pretty much everything so counter strike seems more like something that ends up doing some extra DPS if I decide to Grog facetank something outside deception. The damage is additive but on the otherhand the number is kinda big so it does hurt some.

I’d like to ask you guys who have played with it for a long time and have a feel for it how much it does it affect you build? Do you actually notice the damage difference on those hits? Have ever tried how it is without it?

Counter Strike seems like the best dump for those 3 points for me but I know I’m still going to give a lot of Pimpernel love for my enemies so I’m wondering if I wouldn’t just stick the points into OSOK for some extra damage or maybe even 2F for slightly more effective Grog slagging if I do that instead of shoot a slag pimp at 'em.


Naturally for straight melee I go 5/5. For hybrid I still go 3/5 or so.

It does make a huge difference but realistically can only be exploited on big targets. Naturally it’s not necessary for your average targets. Because you have to wait for it to proc, it’s unreliable and therefore useless for MMF. Still, it can make the difference between one-shotting and not for something like Scorch or Duke of Ork. I think those damage cap numbers we see at OP8 are only possible when it’s active.

It’s a matter of deciding to consciously play around it. For a long time I didn’t ever bother to listen for the sound - but now I will actually wait for it. In some cases it’s handy because it means you can Execute early if you need to.

Otherwise, I’d say those three points would do just fine in OSOK for Pimp usage.

@Sun_Tsunami @User2136 @nat_zero_six @StrikerZidane @Enderborn1


I never really play Hybrid Zer0 aside from a meme-ish Heart Breaker + Love Thumper build, so I don’t know much about how C0unter Strike affects Hybrid builds.

However, I can 100% guarantee you that 5/5 C0unter Strike is borderline essential in Melee-focused builds, especially for situations where Decepti0n is on cooldown.
Since you’re gonna take damage, it’ll proc really often and give you enough damage to reliably kill stuff or deal good damage without the Action Skill and without risking to switch to the Rapier.

Here’s the best example I could come up with of it really having an impact :


Personally, I’d drop the points from unforseen and throw 5 in counterstrike, 3 in osok if you are going for primarily melee. You said you know your preferences so if you like unforseen, go for it.

If I was just dropping the 3 somewhere, I’d probably go with them in counterstrike (like enderborn is saying) since, while osok and the pimp work well together, you can already get pretty good potential damage between killer, be like water, and rising shot getting stacked up.

On the other hand, I could see where the osok bonus would be nice depending on playstyle. If you’re mostly using guns on big targets, I’m not sure the osok bonus makes up for the loss in counterstrike damage.

But if you using guns between deceptions to weaken/thin out the mobs while waiting for cooldown, I could see where having the extra gun damage would be nice to proc kill skills if you’re just taking a shot or two starting at a full mag, quick reload with killer then going into deception.


You’ll have a hard time convincing Lammas and me to drop that :wink:

My build has it and will like always have it - I’ll drop it for raids obviously.


Unless it’s Pete. :wink:
On OP8 Pete throughout the fight it’s basically the equivalent of slightly more than an extra Execute in terms of damage, which is a lot of freaking time. :smile:


This was from a previous post of mine :

Incidentally, the damage for OP8 is 660K per level. So 5/5 does 3300K. This is actual damage against an OP8 enemy - so with that level’s 55% damage reduction factored in.
By comparison : my OP8 Rugged Topneaa does 2693K (again, this is actual - not card - damage). This is basically the same damage as 4/5 in Unforseen.
Adding a shock Bone does exactly what it should : add x% to Unforseen’s base.

Yes - I did keep it for Pete. Actually, I probably kept it for Gee too come to think of it.


Alright then
3 points into counterstrike it is.

I’d imagine I’m going to be a lot more shooty melee than most melee players but I’ll have to see if that ends up changing when I play for a bit without AOWTG and CA.

I think raids and say, Dukino’s mom, are some of the places where 5/5 really gets to shine and I’d imagine 3/5 might be good enough for me since I’m likely going to approach those guys with the more shooty hybrid approach. I’ll try it out and see how it goes.


I know it’s a tough sell to you two. Between it flinching my aim running shotgun zero and stealing my mmf target, I’ve had more trouble with it than anything.

Although… Can you heal off its damage? Say you’re hurt, throw deception, run to cover and shoot a grog to break deception and pop unforseen and maybe get above healthgate


Yep, it works nicely with Grog. I honestly never thought about Unforeseen stealing MMF targets but I can’t imagine that’s a very common occurrence unless it’s psychos or pup skags or something that it tends to off anyway?


Hadn’t thought about that, couldn’t hurt to have some extra free healing for something like that. Unforseen definitely doesn’t kill anything significant, especially at op8, but if they took splash from a chain lightning or something, it can mess with your planned chain. Those little ones can be nice fodder to add to your timer to deception.

Realistically, probably not that often, but you remember the times it hurt more than when it helped

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Yeah, I remember it blowing up barrels in my face :smile:
Still, it’s fun if you build for it (10/5, shock bone) and play carefully.


For fear of derailing FROM: Counter Strike and TO: Unforseen, MMF chain stealing is more of a concern at 72 and I would never use it in Pete’s Bar at that level. Otherwise at OP8 it’s just powerful enough to do what it’s supposed to but not so much that it will take out a midget on its own. It’s simple to adjust with a BoA.


The above got you all covered. All I can give is just “Hit it”

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