Caldarius....and why there's a bit too much noclip

Among the other 25 BB heroes…I have never met one more frustrating to play from an effectiveness standpoint in PvP, than Caldarius. Even Benedict at least gets to control HOW he flies when he gets into the nosebleeds. Known as a Skirmisher, I always get a match on Overgrowth, where all that manueverability is destroyed by overhangs and wall edges. And hands down, his ultimate is the worst on any map with something above you. No less than three times at the big center shard in Overwatch, hitting Aerial Assault clip-stopped him not on the ground, but on collision with that overhang above the shard. And I’m not talking the short clip-stop where his ult doesn’t trigger. I get airborne, manage to find a target even though that stupid overhang blocks my view of an actual target(Which would bring up another point, but let’s stay focused) and then I try to drive it home, get stopped on that overhang and fall straight back down. What a great way to waste a 60 second cooldown and leave me vulnerable.

I’m not advocating that you change Caldarius. Rather, ditch the endless amounts of no-clip terrain ABOVE the ground that hampers characters like Benedict and Caldarius. Again, not saying to change the LANES, just the terrain above them. No one should have an ult either NOT fire, or fire and be wasted, because of something they can’t control flying up INTO.

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I think it is better to have a mix of the 2. Having certain parts of the map have ceilings gives melee characters counterplay to characters like benedict and caldarius. Having map awareness is a part of mastering the game, and you might have to accept that for some characters it will have more significance to reaching their skill ceiling.

Except…this isn’t an issue for all Battleborn, or even all aerial/elevated jumping Battleborn. If Thorn ran into this with her boosted jump or Toby because he jump-jetted that high, I could see it as a tactical challenge. But it is a problem EXCLUSIVE to Caldarius. And, it’s one beyond any kind of tactical mitigation, other than to refuse the shot.

Let’s take the next highest flying character; Benedict and put him in the same situation when he activates Liftoff. Like Caldarius, he hits that high ceiling, and doesn’t max out his elevation. UNLIKE Caldarius, he will STAY in the air with his Glide. He might not get as far as normal, but it isn’t a total loss of the ability. And, he can still maneuver. jump or double jump and he ascends, let off glide, he drops down. Yes, he can still be shot down, but that was true even if he maxes his Liftoff’s jump.

Caldarius’ ult(and lest we forget; his is the ONLY ult that can actually misfire and still lock out time) grants no control over how high he flies, or where he clips into something. For as big an area as his ult might actually HIT, it can be stopped if his model(NOT his AoE, JUST the model) clips ANYTHING prior to landing. And it’s nice to have your PoV locked DOWN to the angle of attack for your landing, as opposed to being able to maybe look around and see that you’re going to headbut the ceiling wall in front of you and negate your landing.

This is why I’m saying Overgrowth needs to be changed. On most other maps, it’s fine. Meltdown and Coldsnap do have areas with ceilings, but there’s more than one and the height is clear when you’re near it(You can actually execute Caldarius’ ult in the big shard on OG, IF…you position him perfectly(and I mean down to a few dozen pixels) between the shard and the wall prior to activation. ) Echelon’s ceilings are equally hard to misjudge for an AA strike. It’s ONLY Overgrowth this happens on. But…which map among all the modes, is the most played?

Someone call the best gardner in Solus.
We have some hedges to trim - big ones.

The whole running into stuff is something that I’ve noticed with a lot of characters. Something can be completely off screen and you’ll still get stopped dead if you move too close to it. I’ve noticed it especially with Caldarius, like you’ve said. While using Gravitic Burst I get stopped on all kinds of things that definitely aren’t in my way, and when using Aerial Assault on players who are running away I’ll often collide with arches, even though my targeting circle clearly says that I’ll pass through the arch and land on the ground no problem. It’s also extremely annoying that if you take off while trying to do his ult you can very easily collide with something that definitely shouldn’t be enough to stop you and have your ult put into a shortened cooldown without ever having gotten to use it.

Idk what to tell you. I play caldarius all the time and have mastered him, but I don’t find this to be a problem above and beyond the hitbox issues all characters deal with. With proper positioning I never have problems with burst or aerial assault. Know the map and you can easily pick out lines which provide no collision.

Again, it shouldn’t be a problem for ONE character. No map should have issues that pertain to only ONE character. Imagine for a moment, if on hitting Montana’s Lumberjack dash, that hitting any target other than the one under your crosshairs at activation, stopped you dead with no knock up, back or stun. That with Attikus’ Pounce, if you didn’t hit your target or clip terrain, NO ONE would take damage or be knocked around where you land even if there are other targets within valid range. Or using say Deande’s Holotwin, that it stop on the first clip against terrain or NPC’s and detonates, resulting in no damage.

Deande’s HT will actually FOLLOW people around curves and ignore most clipping issues that aren’t flat obstructions. El Dragon’s Dragon Splash will damage enemies behind a thin wall if the AoE’s in the right spot. Caldarius’ ult, should have the same utility.

My point is that it is not in fact a problem for caldarius. You’re just as likely to get caught on something with close line for el dragon or montana’s dash or attikus’s pounce in varying degrees. These abilities just require you to aim properly. Some abilities are going to be harder to use than others and that’s that.

Actually no. El Dragon’s clothesline doesn’t stop even if you hit something. You’ll glance off anything that isn’t at an acute angle to your line of travel. And with Montana’s LD, even if you DO clip something near your target, you will still effect the AoE attack AROUND you, and can still knock them up or back. Caldarius’ ult, is the only one that fires EVERYTHING at the point of clipping, and forces you out of control in a free fall.

My above examples, do what Caldarius’ ult does: effectively zero-sum the ult in effect, while still imposing a cooldown if you clip terrain. Not even counting the landing, if you flub the takeoff, you get smacked with a cooldown. And again, this is for ONE map. If the above problem was on most of the maps, I’d have no qualms.

El dragon’s clothesline does sometimes stop when you hit something in the map. I am not completely familiar with montana as i have hardy played him, but i have seen it gotten stuck on things.

Let’s assume that caldarius’s ult is significantly more likely to get stuck on things and has worse consequences than these other abilities. Does that mean it needs to be changed in any way? You said, [quote=“Khas, post:1, topic:1520426”]
because of something they can’t control
[/quote], but this is plainly false because you can in fact control whether you’ll hit something on take off or not, or hit something on the way down. You can fly around once you hit max altitude to position yourself so this exact thing doesn’t happen.

There will always be mechanics in a game which are harder to master than others. In a roster of 26, I see no problem with one character having an ult which is hard to use. The skill floor does not need to be the same for all characters, and imo caldarius’s isn’t even that high.

honestly, my preference would probably be for calds ult to have grealty reduced cooldown and damage+aoe.
as fun as it is to superman entrance into a group of enemy BB I pretty much exclusively use it and see it used for mobility/escape, so would make sense to me

I feel you man, I main with Caldy and I am a bit conservative to use the ult.

…Cross

I specifically said Caldarius’ ult DOESN’T need to change. OVERGROWTH does. it isn’t the ult that’s the problem; it’s the useless visual gloss that nonetheless AFFECTS that ult on Overgrowth alone.

Again, there is no guide on WHERE Caldarius will FLY when he activates his ult. Only where it will IMPACT if he reaches the target point. Yes, you CAN fly around…SOMEWHAT, with Caldarius’ ult. But you have three seconds on regaining control in the air to spot your target, aim for the landing point, and THEN determine if that landing or your hovering point will have clipping issues, and THEN figure out how to clear those issues if possible, AND THEN MANEUVER AROUND THEM! If you don’t notice the two or three pixels of a branch or wall at the upper edges of your peripheral vision when trying to target his ult, even though you could fly, you WILL still impact, clip and negate his ult entirely.

I meant the game in general. Might have worded that too vaguely. I DO NOT EVER have this problem on overgrowth is what I’m saying. Maybe it is the way I have my visual settings set to, or I can process all these Ideas in my head, or I have practiced this ability enough to know the exact positions in which to activate it, but I never get stuck on any branches on the descent or any objects for that matter.

My experience is obviously different to yours with the ability so the idea that visual settings are affecting each of our gameplay differently is the most likely scenario.

The only time I have ever had cal’s ult canceled on overgrowth is on the ascent when I was not paying attention to where I was located because sometimes you just @#$% up!!! I have never felt as though the ult cancelled because of something I could not control so I will never be able to identify with your problem. I like overgrowth just the way it is, and don’t think it needs a change. To me this problem seems like a you problem and not a caldarius or overgrowth problem.

It’s interesting that you blame me specifically when other people have commented on this thread with the same problem. Could they be clones of me?

Second, it has nothing to do with visual settings. This isn’t an issue of render or draw distance. It, as the title states, is an issue of clipping. Of competing geometries in a confined space.

Lastly, as you state, you can’t see the problem yourself and can’t offer a solution . So, why are you continuing to comment?

That was to be my last comment since I felt I could provide no further feedback. I am not blaming you for the problem. My point about the visual settings was that they can make you misjudge object sizes in turn causing you to hit things which you didn’t think were there but in fact were there.

Btw I think you mean lack of clipping as clipping is when an object does visually pass through another object for the sake of improving processing speeds, or rather actually you are talking about hitbox collisions. It is a thing in every game. Hitboxes are made which are invisible to the eye in order to make collision calculations. The simpler the geometry of these objects the less the processor has to calculate when collisions happen. Making these hitboxes more complicated so that they match exactly with the visual in game objects would probably solve you’re problem. The consequences of this, however, would be a tank in game performance.

I’d rather learn where and how the hitboxes behave than have the game’s performance be ■■■■. With practice you can overcome your problem with caldarius’s ult. You just have to understand that aerial assault’s limitations are more than what you can see. Even in fighting games with limited onscreen objects, good players learn their character’s and the opponent’s character’s hitbox interactions rather than just what they think should happen according to the visual aspect of the game.

I have learned in my many matches with caldarius not to engage aerial assault in the area you speak of because of the possible collision with objects, but rather engage it outside that zone to create an angle where I can hit the enemy without colliding.

Battleborn still uses unreal engine 3, and this might just be the limitations of an older game engine. A solution to you’re perceived problem might be to rid that section of overgrowth of objects, but that is a slippery slope. If you remove some geometry from the game so caldarius can ult successfully in that area, why not remove it from other areas where caldarius cannot ult successfully. Why not get rid of the tunnels in overgrowth altogether? Why not get rid of all the ceilings and overhangs in echelon? My point is, rather than change the game geometry to fit caldarius, change your play of caldarius to fit the game geometry.

I don’t understand why your arguing so adamantly for something that will positively effect a character. There is literally no negative to the changes suggested, only a smoother experience for Caldarious players.

He has many issues with his ult in PVP and PVE and if I remember correctly it was mentioned a while back by a dev as something they might look into changing.

Using your ult and hitting a low hanging branch etc on the way up or down is a common occurrence. I have 300 hours and have NEVER been killed by a Cal ult and can’t help but think collision issues are mostly to blame bc I know there are some good Cals out there.

It’s alright Asia. I thought VR was trying to bait me into a fight over skill levels. I got it wrong in that regard.

VR, I do get what you’re saying. Part of it, is why I didn’t suggest just making Caldarius himself clippable only during his ult phase. Since he can already send the camera through terrain and obstacles, why not just go the whole route and make him clip through anything? In my testing more than once, I’ve gotten to a chrome gray screen…BUT, the names and healthbars of allies and enemies, was sill visible. As I said he can send the camera on his quasi 3rd person PoV, into the terrain, but it doesn’t ALL clip through. I realized I was looking at a portion of Caldarius’ back, as he moved and maneuvered for the finish of his ult.

But in making Caldarius HIMSELF clippable, exploits automatically pop up. Now he can clip not just through the terrain ABOVE him, but to the sides. He can clip and phase through a wall with his Ult, and then slam down from the other side when people think they’ve lost him. His escape capacity on reaching 5th, would quadruple in my most conservative estimates, as his ult allowing him to clip makes no part of the map safe FROM him.

That’s why I advocate clipping or removing the terrain instead. First, since he’s the only one currently able to reach that high, it resolves the issue with him, without making changes TO him. None of his stats or mechanics need to change then. Second, if other high-flying Battleborn are in the pipe, it will resolve similar issues that could pop up with them.

As an aside for those who are having difficulty with Cald, I DID learn something today. His normal double jump isn’t quite enough to get you over a large two-sided Minion melee if you need a confirmed escape route in the mid. However, double jump, and at the apex of the 2nd, activate his Gravitic Burst, and it will carry you over all but the elite, the sheperd, and thralls to safety. I’d wager if you take the Gravitic Ascent helix option at level 5, he will clear them too.

I agree. The ultimate could use some tinkering and I too get caught with gravitas bursts from time to time. Some of is my game play but I do think it is buggy and should be worked on.

Some overhangs in Overgrowth ex: the one near the entrance of the 1st sentry, and the one on the left side of the entrance from the 1st sentry to the base medium shard area - when you ult a bit near the wall’s edge, you will get caught in that edge. I dunno if you can picture that. By accident, you’ll get caught by that overhang and just drop even if you have zoned in your target area.
I think there are really some places you cannot do the ultimate; however that is justifiable if the damage of that ult is massive - but it is just enough to finish of 1/3 or 1/4 life squishies.