Campaign gives too many resources

The HW1RM campaign gives far too many resources. I’ve seen a couple of posts by people showing them with a maxed out fleet sitting on 37k+ RUs towards the latter half of the campaign. That’s enough RUs to rebuild your entire fleet several times over, far more than could ever reasonably be used. This is way more than in the original.

The original game wasn’t designed with auto harvesting in mind. I think the resources really need to be looked at. In the original game, I always made sure to harvest all resources and by the 14th mission I had a fairly large fleet, but not maxed out, and I was out of RUs. Preserving ships and managing resources well was a big part of the original game. The resources need to be adjusted to match the spirit of the original game.

Here’s an example image: http://s686.photobucket.com/user/mutrumbo/media/20160614233244_1_zps8uleuj1x.jpg.html

Another example:

The HW2RM campaign does the same thing, though this imitates how HW2 classic worked. It still gives far more resources than could ever be used by the player, and I think it should be changed, but that’s just my opinion.

For future reference, a new thread in the same sub-forum

I thought as a campaign issue this wouldn’t belong in the multiplayer beta sub-forum. Should I move the post again?

No, that forum needs to be renamed - which it will be shortly.

Not necessarily reduce the overall about of resources. There are other options available too such as eliminating the auto-collect feature or reducing the amount of resources collected during auto-collect (e.g., 50% of total available). But, I agree that the current implementation makes actually harvesting rather superfluous.

I prefer reducing the amount auto-collected at the end, because players who want to spend time fighting enemies and gathering resources themselves are rewarded for doing so while other players are forced to harvest a least a little bit during missions, or they’ll probably run out later on.

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Honestly I’d prefer auto collect to be removed, but many would disagree. The overall amount of resources does need to be reduced though. 37k+ with a maxed out fleet is ridiculous. Even if one harvested all of the resources in the original they wouldn’t have that much. Not even close.

I’m sure that some other players would have spent more resources building more strike craft and corvettes than I did though. I just didn’t see the need, so I didn’t. I also didn’t build a lot of carriers or other ships; I just captured most of what I eventually had. Reducing the overall resources would limit the ability for players to build their own ships rather than capture them.

Therefore, I feel really uncomfortable reducing the overall resource amount without also addressing the issue of capturing vs. building.

That’s how the original worked… You generally never had maxed out fleet, but could still easily finish the campaign without capturing any ships.

And when you say limit. 37k+ is a bit unlimited. There should be limits on what you can build. That’s why there are resources at all. If there are no limits, then resources are pointless.

With what you had, you could easily max out corvettes, strike craft, carriers, research ships, everything. Then scuttle everything. Rebuild it, scuttle, repeat 7 or 8 times.

Capturing vs building isn’t a issue. Both should be valid options. With infinite resources capturing is pointless since you could just build everything anyways.

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In an earlier mission, I actually had nearly 50k. :-p

Interestingly, when I completed the campaign last year (obviously pre2.0), I had ~60,000 going into the last mission. I only had in the 40,000s this year. This is a screenshot from last year’s version during the final mission.

Either way those are ridiculous amounts. You could rebuild your fleet several times over. No point in capturing ships, or preserving ships, or spending RUs wisely. Just build everything. Then scuttle it all if you want and build it again.

@Migz_DH Your pictures are unreadable. Upload them at native 1080p and not to Photobucket, since you can’t link straight to the picture without getting redirected to the website.

However, I agree with the general sentiment about reducing RU’s. In HW1 Classic, the most you could get was 30k RU’s by M14 (Bridge of Sighs) and that required extreme resource management.

Can you answer if this issue will be looked at? Or if it will be addressed?

By that mission in the original I had a fairly large fleet, but not maxed out, and I used up all of my resources. I harvested every asteroid up to that point. Granted I didn’t salvage every ship possible and retire them, but resources were certainly much more limited.

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I actually wasn’t previously aware I could just upload the pics, so thanks for pointing that out. I’ve updated those images now.

There, now I believe I’ve replaced all of my photobucket links with actual uploads.

Zero promises will be made. The point of this process isn’t to just take complaints - but to TEST some of these edits within the community.

If you feel strongly, try modding the resources lower (very easy) - see if it feels better to you. If it does, and others agree, then we can explore around your suggested changes and find something to keep. We can roll edits in to a nightly update and let others have a say in whether or not those changes are keepers.

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In homeworld one, the campaign strategy was “find how to avoid the triggers so you can have as much time as possible to harvest and rebuild before continuing.” (Including waiting to harvest and rebuild before hyper spacing to next mission). In homeworld two, the strategy was more like “run a resource operation the whole mission while qeueing a bunch of ships to be built to replace the ones you lose in the mission and expand the fleet in the process.” (At least that was my experience) This difference made auto-collect make a lot more sense for HW2, bc it helped to have a huge reserve to fund longer missions (considering the enemy constantly builds new forces as well). For HW1, auto-collect saves time, and I like the idea of it (having done the old method of spending 45+ minutes collecting every speck of dust on the map) but the availability of resources means that you mostly just end up stockpiling huge amounts of RU’s and never running out. My point is that the HW1 campaign focused on the idea of keeping your ships alive at all costs because they were relatively expensive (The greater availability of repair units in HW1 is evidence of this) while HW2 made it easier to be more risky with your units and just replace them live. Two different styles of strategy, not saying one is superior. But the amount of resources you get in HW1R is comparable to what you get in HW2, and since it’s easier to keep your ships alive in HW1, it leads to a lot of excess RU’s.

(Sorry for that crazy ramble, just wanted to share my two cents on the matter.)

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Cataclysm had the same problem as HW2 with resources. In Mission 6, you could harvest the entire nebula and given that ships were cheap, the resources harvested there would last the remainder of the game without needing to harvest any more. In all my playthroughs of Cata, I used to always have 250k RUs by the end, even in one case having more than 400k (if I harvested every single resource). Granted you’d probably need to harvest every so often to replenish RUs at higher difficulties and also as you progressed through the campaign, but it was less important to harvest.

This dripped into HW2, so in the last mission, you had 250k RU’s due to the huge amount of RUs in the Balcora mission. I preferred HW1’s method of resourcing, because that just introduced a strategy of itself. Having excessive resources means it is not a strategy at all, because there’s nothing to worry about, not to mention that harvesting resources in HW1 is sometimes a mission goal, but is never a mission goal of any mission of HW2.

I agree with those who want the RU counts to be dropped, because HW1 was always about people developing a strategy to better the enemy, who were never prepared. But in HW2, the enemy was always prepared, because that was the aim of the game, neither was strategy very important, because most HW2 missions just threw you into huge battles with no time to think about such things.

The RUs available does seem a bit high. I would support the earlier suggestion of reducing the auto-harvesting to some fixed percentage of the resources available (33% or 50%) - if you skillfully manage your ships you don’t need to harvest, but if you are reckless or want to max out your DDs before the Kadesh levels you had better harvest everything yourself.

I once did a few mods to the game that disabled auto collecting at the end of every level and adjusted the amount of resources to match exactly to HW1 but in the end I had issues with the fleet scaling, I can’t remember the results right now, but I just remember that it was much more difficult than I expected and it was really counterproductive in a lot of ways.

In the end it could be possible but it will need a lot of other adjustments.

Were you able to find a way to tinker with the fleet scaling at all? I’m making a small mod to adjust the RUs, but I can’t figure out how to change the scaling. I think it’s probably better to keep the auto harvesting, but reduce the number of RUs to account for it.