Can a forum make a bad Moze build work?

Righto legends! Here we go. I want a community built build based on a general consensus of what Moze’s worst skills are. I wanna see some healthy debate as to why some skills are terrible, and then we’re gonna push them to see exactly how bad they are, and if in tandem we can make them work. Somehow. Here’s the rub. I looked at the skill trees and the bad skills are all over the place. So we’re gonna need rules.

First of all I want to decide if the build needs a capstone. Or not.

Second, We’re gonna need to decide what the worst skills are.

Third, after working out one and two, we’re gonna need to decide how to prioritise the worst skills.

Fourth, I reserve the right to use good gear. I wanna start by trying what’s in my bank, but I’m open to donations of appropriately rolled gear to make-it-work.

Lastly, the goal is to roll Wotan. I’m gonna start with mayhem 0, and go up until M4TTM. All attempts will be TVHM. There will be video. And swearing. Probably.

I’m gonna update this post when I feel a step has been answered, and check things off as we go.

So! To kick things off, I’m throwing it to you lot:

Do I need a capstone? If so, Which one is worst? Have at me!


If it helps, this is what I’m feeling so far:

Still have 16 points to spend, need direction.

I see where you’re going and I know where you want to go. 5/5 in TCP, all the way down to more grenades (completely not necessary) and Short Fuse, with Selfless Vengeance, the Nukem, Mindsweeper MOD.

I call it the “Aloha Snackbar” build, aka fastest way to off yourself.


I like it, but the thing is both short fuse and the mindsweeper com are really good. So to take your comment on point, are you making and argument for short fuse being the worst capstone? If so, can you explain why?

Oh, no, SF is the best capstone and arguably has most utility with all trees. When we get more points in a level cap increase, expect SF to be the foundation in every future Moze build. So completely disregard that one. You can make the case for Forge taking the best worst capstone. Although, I happily use all three now thanks to @Prismatic and his analysis on Moze’s numbers.

One could make the case for her top worst skills in value & underperformance:

  1. Forge, an actual anointment on some weapons and can be replicated through the use of the terror mechanic.
  2. Force Feedback, nullified by the guardian rank perk.
  4. Selfless Vengeance
  5. Explosive Punctuation
  6. Behind the Iron Curtain
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On shortfuse, I agree it’s the very best.
I’ll take this as a vote for Forge, and I’ll keep your other skill selections in mind. Cheers legend!

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It heavily depends on the gear you want to use. For me personally Short Fuse is the worst capstone … its only 20% chance for extra 75% damage (so 0.2 * 0.75 = +15% damage) and to get down there you have to take a few “useless” skills. That may change if you like splash damage, grenades and constantly hoping in and out of iron bear, but I would still always rank Forge and Tenacious Defense higher than Short Fuse.


Considering Short Fuse double dips splash and also gets Iron Bear damage it can be built to be by far Moze’s most build defining capstone.

I’ll second the vote of including Forge, so often it is made entirely redundant by either 1 Redis and big mags or 2 Redis. I could probably count on 1 hand the number of instances I think Forge is the best choice.

Tenacious Defense doesn’t have the game changing potential of Short Fuse but is still solid in non 1hp set ups.


Interesting input so far. In my head, I had tenacious defence pegged as the worst, although thinking more about how this build will most likely turn out, forge will probably be more useless. We shall see.

I want to set gear aside for the moment. We’ll talk about that after the builds skill points are settled. Which capstone would you take over short fuse and why?

Absolute doo-doo


I think this could be close to a final build. No capstone, nearly all shockers. Does anyone have any finer details to add/suggest/change?

I wanted to get to 1 point in EP, but I just couldn’t stretch it any thinner

Explosive punctuation is my least favourite skill, but there’s too many decent skills on the way there.

I’m going to revisit this in the morning with a coffee and laugh. Then I’ll seriously start thinking how to make it work. I think there’s a Torgue pistol and launcher build here, somewhere.

Yeah if the goal is worst build with your best gear to make it work… I’ll have to think on that. It’s a pretty bad build.

Totally a snowdrift deathless explosions build, damage while sliding Scourge and devastator​:joy::joy:

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A sliding annointed alchemist with a transformer shield? Could be just good enough to not work! Hahahahaha.

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I’d go 4 Matched set over 1-3 current split with CoL. CoL at low investment is actually really good value.

I’d also say drop Rushin’ Offensive for EP. 2/5 EP just glares the incompetence we want. It also leads to the horror of about 3/5 Scrappy.

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Yeah that’s a decent refinement. It looks like I’d need to invest points somewhere else in DW tree to get there though. Where would they go?

SSB, you’ve got no other Iron Bear damage investment to support it and you don’t have Short Fuse either.