# Can someone explain this Mayhem?

I’m confused on my perks…
Can anyone help?

I assume you’re referring to the first two? That happens sometimes; they basically just cancel each other out.

We assume they cancel out. If one get’s applied first it is a net loss.

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I hadn’t thought of that. If mayhem modifiers aren’t applied all at once it would be bad design IMO.

Honestly it would be hard to apply it at the same time considering its just basic math. Unless they have some sort of separate category, but someone needs to actually test it.

100 x .5 = 50 x 1.5 = 75
Or
100 x 1.5 = 150 x .5 = 75

So it would have to be a separate “type” multiplier in order for it to cancel and it would have to be done first.

100 x (1.5 - .5) = 100

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So basic Highshcool Algebra in other words.

I said it was basic. lol But it would be interesting to see where in the full damage equation modifiers are.

It’s really just whether mayhem modifiers are multiplicative or additive to each other. Order of operation doesn’t really matter

100 * (1+(0.5-0.5)) is the same as 100 * (1+(-0.5+0.5))

vs multiplicative, which could still go in any order.

100 * (1+0.5) * (1-0.5)

But I personally have no idea which it uses. Some forum scientist probably knows, but they’re likely hiding in one of the character specific forums, heh.

That’s what I meant by where they are in the full equation. Are they before, after, multiplicative or additive? I don’t think anyone has actually done any testing. And with the randomness of it. I don’t blame anyone for not trying it.

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the rolls don’t cancel out, you end up doing less damage with all types. I have done a little bit of testing shooting cars on various maps. It’s kinda annoying and I mostly pay attention if there is anything that seems like an anomaly

anyway, as seen on reddit, here is someone trying to explain mayhem modifiers. Personally I get lost in discussions of additive vs multiplicative but as far as I can tell it is accurate info

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They don’t cancel each other out, they will reduce damage for all those weapons by up to 25% depending on your other stats.

It’s more confusing than I thought. On their own, they’re additive modifiers added to/subtracted from Guardian Rank (don’t ask me why, ask the devs), but among each other they seem to be multiplicative. Confusing? Yes it is, but that’s apparently how it works.

Here’s what I’m working with: a Dahl pistol with 968 gun dmg, a Dahl sniper with 1552 gun dmg, and a +10.34% gun dmg Guardian Rank.

These are the modifiers for the first test (only one of the mods in question). Note that contrary to the +/-50% modifier for weapon types, the -20% for all guns is actually multiplicative, meaning it’s a flat × 80% for the entire formula:

Pistol: 968 × (100% + 10.34% - 50%) × (100% - 20%) = 467.27

Sniper: 1552 × (100% + 10.34% + 50%) × (100% - 20%) = 1990.78

So if this +/- 50% thing is additive, having both opposite ones should just cancel each other out, right? 50% - 50% = 0. Nope. It results in an additive -25% for all of them. One mathematical explanation may be that they’re multiplied among each other (50% × 150% = 75%), but the result is still additive to Guardian Rank. Here’s the modifiers I’m testing (this time without another multiplier):

Pistol: 968 × (100% + 10.34% - 25%) = 826.09

Sniper: 1552 × (100% + 10.34% - 25%) = 1324.47

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