Can we actually have a True.. True Vault hunter/uvhm mode please?

Disclaimer:This is my personal experience and feelings, what im suggesting shouldnt effect anyone.

I remember playing with my wife through bl2 original it was fun but boring… Cuz we plowed through it like a wet paper bag..When we did true vault hunter though… Woooweee that was refreshing! Felt like more and crazier enemies tougher appeared. Going back to the hyperion exploitarion zone for loot midgets i always would find random spawns of different animals different names random stuff.

Bosses felt like bosses! Significantly different with new ways of doing stuff or theyd live long enough for you to see em.

New stuff to see and do get and the world felt better refreshing a. Challenge.
Sometimes id encounter a super robot in one place other times nope.

I didnt need slag for everything. Just some tough enemies, slag made it easier if i didnt have their element on hand. Plus explosions hurt all

Placing dots on multiple heavy enemies was a good idea.

Random enemies seemed resistant to different things. It really was a work of love in the world

Loot midgets scared the crap outta my wife. Good times.

I never.minded replaying the whole game in different op modes. It felt. Balanced good i never though its too hard i need better gear. All my old gear still worked. When new stuff came out it was new toys to play with
All my old builds loadouts were still effective.

Quest items blues purples.uniques all effective through tvhm with all the op levels…

This game doesn’t offer that. The world feels dead until u walk to a spawn point n enemies pop out.

Stuffs well spaced and hardly ever encounters one another.

With mayhem theres no difference or reason to do tvhm

In this game you can shoot an anointed for longer than Gravewarden… This games sense of balance is weird and seems… It feels lazy.

Id like a tvhm style
More enemies.more randomness more variation.
Id feel like theres a living world and reasons to go back.

With power creep its pointless to farm old favorites.
I day this game gets updated with a truely worthy True Vault hunter mode and op lvls.

This games bosses just feel like badasses…with immunity phases.
I hope they bring the game back to par with bl2 one day


TVHM seems like TVHM to me. Perhaps the enemy variety could be ramped up, although I could do without the anointed enemies. As long as there’s no awful UVHM, or at least TVHM continues to scale all the way up.

I think that extra difficulty should be available for all characters from the beginning. I have a colleague at work who’s used to playing Dark Souls who just bought this game and he was quite disappointed that he would have to play through the entire story to get a proper challenge. At the beginning, where you choose between easy and normal, they should just slip hard in as another choice.


First of all, I absolutely agree with you. However, BL3 has changed the franchise fundamentally. The previous games have been FPSrpg. BL3 is a RPGfps. I saw someone on the forum call it a “loot collection game” and that’s not wrong. I’m assuming the majority of long term players want that.

The object of the game has been shifted to getting players to the level cap asap to farm legendaries and create “God builds”. I don’t believe GBX really wanted a TVHM. They left it in as a gesture to those of us who enjoyed multiple playthroughs and increasing difficulty & progression. It offers little challenge compared to BL2 and TPS. Even BL1 was harder at PT2.5.

Mayhem mode had to be introduced to give players somewhere to go once they hit the level cap, since the natural progression through multiple playthroughs had been removed. That’s why it has been so problematic to implement properly.

Sadly, we will never get a traditional TVHM/UVHM because the fundamental mechanics of the game cannot support it.


I wouldn’t mind seeing True Vault Hunter Mode function as a “True” variant of Normal Vault Hunter Mode like the True Takedown Mode is for the Takedowns.

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Scripts and enemy placement. Thats all it takes.

I even posted the
Script for how this game could have vertical split screen. :confused: im.gonna just disagree with ya there partner.

Appreciate everything else u wrote n concur

Fully agree with your sentiment n take on everything else

Why I want UVHM:

I’ve played through the full game so many times now - running 10+ characters through Normal and True modes - that the lackluster story (compared to BL2) actually doesn’t even bother me anymore. Surprisingly, I’ve now started to really enjoy playing through it.

There are a ton of fun sidequests, and the main game is a fun run if you just enjoy the environments and shooting. Wainwright, Clay, the Traunts, Aurelia… this game has a lot of fun new characters, both to befriend and to shoot.

I would love a third playthrough, just like BL2 - and jack up the difficulty for me! Add another 2-3x base health multiplier. Increase enemy damage. Add 1-2 additional random health bars of different elements. Make UVHM crazy! I may be in the minority, but I’d love a reason to play through the entire game and DLCs again with an existing character.

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I’m not even a good gamer and I can handle mostly anything MH10 throws my way. However, on UVHM on TPS I get a regular ar** kicking. The enemies are a lot harder, and hit a lot harder. And I find I just can’t farm my way through it as easy as BL3. Mission rewards are decent, but legendaries drop rarely, like they’re supposed to.

I also find TVHM on BL2 a lot more difficult, and fun. Though I tend to like TPS better. There, I said it.

I really think GBX did the community a disservice by abandoning TVH/UVH and going with Mayhem.

To fix the current Mayhem. Get rid of the silly modifiers. Instead of making everything a bullet sponge, let them hit harder, make them faster. Disable Guardian Rank at higher levels. All kinds of things can be done to make the challenge funner without resorting to cheap parlour tricks.


I’m going to ask you to slow down when you say increase enemy damage. BL2 did this with Overpower levels and most enemies would completely drain both your shields and health with 1 to 2 shots of a dinky pistol and sentencing you to near-certain death if they applied a Damage-over-Time. You pretty much required a Moxxi weapon or other form of lifesteal in order to attempt to survive. Most survival skills and survival strategy went down the crapper to the strategy of “cram moxxi gun in face”, and build variety took a hit due to almost always having to dedicate an item slot to your healthstick. As it currently stands, most Vault Hunters in BL3 can achieve some impressive survivability (admittedly excessive in some cases) but still go down if they play like a fool.

I will however agree that they’ve gone a bit overboard with Guardian Perks for extending Fight-For-Your-Life. It went from “oh sh*t” to “whoops, I tripped.”


Whatever they do, I just hope it continues to be completely optional. Not really a fan of the absurdly high hp the series has a fetish for.

I prefer other methods of improving difficulty. As it stands now, the only difference between TVHM and M10 (aside from the modifiers which are usually irrelevant cuz you just roll for the ones that affect you least) is which guns you are allowed to use.


Everything u said is how i feel.

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No way if anyone bothered using any defensive stats

Everyone would bee shield n complain about getting 2 hit. We had alot of health to hp gate if we wanted it.

But i guess i was always defensive i used. The 52% roll seraph shield and i used to hse anrough rider before… I just know my healthbar made me Feel like a raid boss.

Would take a few hits fro. Raid.bosses.

But i mean at the hardest difficulties shouldnt using more defense?

I also used neogenator…

Itsa common rpg headache i run into… Across games Ppl wanna facetank with mage robes n no defensive spells. Or gear etc.

I be like… Nah. Just my pov.

I rarely ever used amy moxxi guns only when i felt health gate was appropriate. I didnt have the special hunt pistol. I solo’d every raid boss the game had to offer with axton no cheese.

Oh man i remember that good feeling i got from master gee… Solo. Hyperious before i understood the strategy etc.

Im not get any of that with borderlands 3.

I been blasting every boss to timbuktwo n beyond

When the patch went live, me and some other people were saying that the game would get boring way faster this way, that would be no challenge at all, and a lot of people were saying it was good, that the game is not easy…
It is good to one shot everything the first day, after the 20th it gets pointless.
I don’t remember if it was you that said for me to challenge myself, but it doesn’t feel good to self sabotage, right?

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I think loli hammered that point home in better words for many of us…

Who the hell wants to gimp themselves u wmat the best gear to challenge something.

Nothing’s a challenge anymore.

Id like to see the same bosses few and diff mechanics. This games so easy m10 it blows my mind. Once u done it its boring.

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We saw that problem day 1 after the patch, always easy win is not fun.
M10 was supposed to be the final achievement, but when you can hold your ground on it, there is nothing else to do, you “won”, so arriving to that point too fast is terrible. I think it was that kind of situation that “you only see the issue when you are there”, people were just excited they could play M10 and had no idea how easy it really became for those that were used to it.

Honestly they should remove Mayhem 2.0, rethink and patch TVHM, rethink mayhem mode and then patch it again, since day one there was no reason to play TVHM with M1 as an option. Mayhem should not give better loot, at best higher chance of anointment, the old mayhem 1.0 was the right way, and to make the game more difficult they could add more enemies with special abilities (like the anointeds and maliwan troops).

The part about feeling alive I get you, I think it has to do with how the maps are made, bl2 the maps represented bigger concepts, like a region with different towns, camps and facilities. Bl3 on the other hand is one map for each thing, one map for the town, one map for this bandit camp, one map for this facility, so even the maps being bigger they feel smaller and artificial.

i kinda expected some OP level style but i was suspicious from the beginning because there wasnt any word about some DPS check
just select your mayhem 10 and get your guns. 1 hour done

I mean u get new weapons u get a new way to kill stuff. Maybe a slight advantage. With a certain setup.grenade combo mod stacking it all.

This game… I dont even need a class…mod.or even talents!

Im NOT JOKING. the power creeps that strong. I can equip most meta guns use ase anoints and kill most of the.bosses in this game in about a minute give or take an immune phase.

Thats just… Wt hell…

I feel like ppl should make videos of that. Thatd be an awesome live stream.

Moxsy and joltz are 1 shooting bosses on twitch^^

Firstly, can I say this isn’t meant to be argumentative, just an exchange of views between two basically like-minded Borderlands players :slight_smile:

I don’t believe that’s entirely true. Obviously, I have no objection to better level design, which is what you’re talking about here. However, I think the other thing that’s missing is progression/levelling.

Blues and purples, even greens, were worthwhile because they could out-class that legendary you found five or six levels ago. Enemies could become exponentially tougher as they increased in level. For instance, Crystalisks could be meleed at Normal but, at UVHM levels, they were lethal. Bosses were hard because the Devs could gauge your likely “strength” at that point in the game and tune the boss accordingly. Personally, levelling up and working towards that next skill point kept me playing.

In BL3, the rate of progression is far greater than its predecessors. Play the campaign on Normal, do the Circles of Slaughter and a few Proving Grounds and you’re at the level cap. Or you could start Mayhem, after the campaign, and get there equally quickly.

At this, point you’ve got nowhere to go in TVHM. If you ignore Mayhem, then the campaign doesn’t get harder. Even if you play at M10, the enemies will be harder but they’ll never get harder still. If you’ve got a “M10 build”, it will carry on being easy. Without progression, TVHM cannot offer the challenge of the previous games.

To put this right, GBX would have to slow down level progression and rebalance all the missions in Normal. In TVHM, with the game levelling to the player, they would have to ensure all the enemies would level appropriately to avoid the game being too hard/easy. Also, from a “marketing” view, I think that would mightily annoy their new target audience of endgamers.

And that’s why I said the fundamental mechanics would not support the TVHM/UVHM we both enjoyed. It would require a major revamp of the structure of BL3 and that’s not going to happen.


Perhaps as a compromise, a new extra hard difficulty mode could be enabled when guardian rank is enabled. So you do have to play through once as the developers intend but then all subsequent new playthroughs have the option to start in hard mode.

Of course what that hard mode consists of is a whole new bunfight…

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