Can we just chat?

The Bitch is really strong against mob enemies, it tends to fall off some on bosses. Paired with a COM with sub damage and Hyperion crit, it can kill nearly any story boss in respectable time.

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Late reply, but I am with you in preference for a decent forum structure over discord for discussion and information dissemination.

GBX has a very solid forum infrastructure too. It’s not prone to decay of topics over time like steam or Reddit while being organized and searchable.

Discord loses value incredibly quickly as time passes from an active conversation. If one isn’t actively participating it is almost useless. Searching for past discussions is at best a pain.

Discord just doesn’t replace a quality forum by any stretch of the imagination. It has other perks, but doesn’t stand alone well. I hate how it is killing proper forums in conjunction with Reddit gaming subs as a whole descent into nothing but memes and circlejerks.

I guess the age of the forum is nearly dead. Social media has won. Damn kids and their rock n roll…

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I tried Reddit, hated it. No coherence between anything it seemed like. Memes and circlejerks is probably the best way to possibly put my opinion of it.

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Not interested in Discord, Reddit, or whatever. I just don’t have the time to keep up. But I CAN pop on here whenever I feel like and engage, learn things, comment, etc. I enjoy that quite a bit.

I will keep showing up here and posting when I have something to contribute. This has been a great place over the years and I hope GBX continues to support it!

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Pet buffs this week! I’m keeping a close eye on it and really hope it’s enough. After Gaige and Deathtrap, Fl4k was one of the characters I was most excited for at launch but I’ve since become so frustrated with the pets that I haven’t touched Fl4k in three months. Hopefully we will finally get to see the BEAST in Beastmaster.

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I’m so ready to get started on that pet compendium if this turns out well. I really want to like BL3, but I can’t do it if FL4K’s pets still feel like turd.

Please let this at least be the start of righting this ship. I’m not getting my hopes up for anything extraordinary, but I am expecting to at least have pets be noticeably more powerful post patch. The bar is that low for me. I really hope they reach it.

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They’ll have to adjust them a lot. Plenty of guns could handle Mayhem 4 before 2.0 dropped but the pets never have so I imagine they’ll either have to do some really heavy scaling or change the formula so more of their bonuses are multiplicative or benefit from more things. It would be interesting if they went the second route. The skag could benefit from melee damage, the jabber from gun damage and the spiderant from elemental/splash damage.

AND, if they do it well, I’ll have 2 DLCs and 7 level ups to enjoy on my Fl4k.

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What is everyone’s visions for expected pet damage? Like per pet special (or should they all hit the same), what caliber of enemy should they be able to kill, how fast, what Mayhem level, etc. What’s the biggest enemy they should be able to kill (at which Mayhem) with enhancements from you short of you actually throwing in your own damage?

I would think an attack command should 1 shot a trash mob. I’m not the expert on pet maths and mechanics, that’s much, MUCH more up @boombumr 's alley. I would love to see my Gunslinger at least get some K’s on damage numbers with his wee little SMG.

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If I bring the game down to Mayhem 1, one shotting trash mobs is easy. Badasses require having most, if not all, pet damage bonuses active, but still very possible.

Considering this was done in old M4 without any scaling


I expect pets to do much better vs most bosses. About 60% of Traunt’s shield without the buffed splash anoint, scaling, or decreased M4 health will definitely make a big difference.
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If we get proper pet/Mayhem scaling I hope this is how it works on M10.

When the Fl4k trailer originally released back in August last year I imagined there would be two main builds to go for: a sniper/crit build and a pet build. There’s currently an enormous gap between what a Red/Green tree combo can do and I feel a properly specced pet build should be a viable competitor with crit builds for Fl4k. In practice I think that would mean pets can one shot trash mobs, manage against badasses and given enough time beat them and survive but need your help against bosses.

More than that, however, there’s bigger issues such as pets immediately dying against Wotan and the attack command button becoming more responsive and, if possible, being able to give a range of commands: stay with he is, defend the player, etc. Hopefully they won’t just power up the pets but will in time also look at the play style itself.

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Unfortunately, this is something I believe they will never actually address. Numbers fixes are one thing, but when it comes to improving the functionality of any specific skill I truly believe they’re just going to leave them alone.

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Yeah, numbers are easy to move around. Re-coding the pet a.i. mechanics is a lot deeper task.

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At what Mayhem level?

It is, but here’s hoping. If, for example, the same way you can issue an attack command by focusing on a target and issuing the command, it would be a game changer to be able to issue a, eh, ‘stay’ command by using the waypoint indicator, maybe with some modifier (like you shoot the waypoint, double tap, dedicated key, whatever).

Pet will go to that point and disengage from combat until an attack command is thrown (or maybe some arbitrary distance from you is reached, given how some maps work, in which case you could re-issue the stay command locally if desired).

This might go against FL4K’s role as a dedicated pet character (who doesn’t seem like the type of dude who would actually hold his pet back from combat), but it would add very interesting combat options. I do think the pet should be seen as unfriendly even when given the stay command, or we’d have a sort of unfair advantage, being able to take them in and out of combat as they take damage, without having to actually retreat. Like you could totally screw this up (or be a dick) by telling your pet to go stay in the middle of a mob, who would then attack it, while it sat there and got killed).

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I really wouldn’t get your hopes up that GBX will change any of Fl4k’s skills or their pets’ mechanics.

I do fully expect that they will adjust numbers somehow, and that there are two possible outcomes from that - (1) it will be entirely ineffective and pets will still be fairly useless due to the mechanics involved; or (2) they will totally overinflate the pet damage and bonus numbers like they did with Cloud Kill, and then pets (and the corresponding damage boosts Fl4k receives) will be totally OP - which they will then have to nerf because reasons and, even if they don’t, the level cap increase will make them moot anyway.

But who knows? All this may be just my bitterness talking. In any event, the patch already is done so nothing is changing now - whatever is going to change, they already did it and wrapped at least a week or more ago.

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Prior to Mayhem 2.0, with Rakk Attack you could take off anywhere from 75% to 100% of a basic enemy’s total health, on M4. For me, getting that kind of damage output from Attack Command would be ideal–being able to “point” at an enemy and know my pet is going to handle it would be really satisfying. I also think that should be the baseline (no focused investment in pet damage) on M6 at least, if not higher–but I don’t really play at anything higher than M8, so I have a hard time figuring out what is reasonable damage output at that level.

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I think we also need to take the specific pet in question into account here. Gunslinger and Scorcher really skew our perceptions of pet damage because they do so much more than the others. I’d use the Horned Skag as a baseline.

If Horned Skag is killing things in one command, that’s one thing. If gunslinger is, that’s another. Since Gunslinger does at least 7.5 the damage of most other pets, if it’s taking him an entire 3 rockets to kill stuff the other pets are screwed. But if Horned Skag can take out an enemy with his attack command, every other pet will able to so easily as well.

As for non-command attacks, I just want a decent TTK in Gamma Burst. I don’t expect my pet to do good damage outside of gamma, but with it if I’d expect that grunts should take more than 7 hits at the max, and badasses should be down within the duration of Gamma Burst (40 seconds for a single enemy is really not asking for much).

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Well, so from my testing I came up with the rough estimate of base damage the pets should do with their normal attacks (well, except the Jabbers as those have very different patterns of damage output) on Mayhem 10. Basically the pets need a base damage of at the very least 15.000 per melee hit to make a difference. Now if we take into account the bonuses to their damage they would actually become valuable damage sources if we spec into them and could kill off trashmobs.

Right now their base damage is at - if I remember correctly - 2.222, so we basically need 7 times the current damage to make them worth building around. And that’s one interesting observation I made while testing: The bonuses the player has access to, naturally mind you and without building just around the pet, are extremely solid, especially if you use splash damage bonuses to make the attack commands better. It’s just that the base damage is that low that even strong bonuses don’t really save it. Also, Go for the Eyes is still one of the worst skill concepts and executions I have seen in the whole franchise and I lived through all the phases of Cloudkill. Just give the pets the ability to crit with a normal 100% critical damage bonus and let GftE increase that bonus considerably per point (like +50% per point) to make that autocrit hit hard.

Note: I didn’t test the Jabbers much as they are much harder to balance due to them hitting more often with more pellets and partially ignoring a part of the distance, so I didn’t just want to make a wild guess for that. They definitely need less of a buff as they are so much stronger than the rest, but they still aren’t good enough.

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Yup, you’re just about right. I did the math on Gunslinger’s attack command, and if they basically just scale him to lvl 67 with full bonuses he would do 3.2 mil, which would be enough to kill a single Maliwan guy. Pretty eh, but at least it would finally be possible.

What I’m really hoping for is a revisit to some of the command damage’s. Non-melee commands (except Gunslinger) should get a buff. This is moreso about the tier 1 pets (centurion, guard skag, and sidekick), but Eridian skag needs some help since it has the lowest attack command damage at base.