Can we make Tenacious Defense a "Shield-Gate"?

LOVING this new content, but man, Moze is even more frail than before…

So I play a URad, Bloodletter 1-HP build that uses splash damage right? I’m stacking 200K shields easy, but I get shredded down to FFYL in less than 3 seconds anyways. :thinking:

With cryo bullets slowing you down, no natural speed/mobility, long IB cool downs, and constant face-tanking of rockets, pin-point snipers, and even your OWN splash damage, Moze can’t catch a break sometimes… :rage:

How about we fix this tier 6, capstone perk and make it a “Shield-Gate” if you will, and finally make this skill synergize with 1-HP builds? Maybe something like this:

"Whenever Moze’s shield would (and does) drop below 20%, she becomes invincible for a time, instantly restores 40% of her shields, and gains 50% increased gun damage.
Invincibility Time: 3s
Cooldown: 15s"

Even the builds that don’t use 1 HP don’t get a lot out of this skill…30% dmg is measly for end game, and enemies hit so hard and so rapidly, your shield would just deplete again…they’d be better off using a Stop Gap over this…

Any thoughts?


you dont have to change so much about that skill
it would be enough to make it trigger without touching your HP
totally agree


:point_right:t2:Frozen Heart​:point_left:t2:

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trigger anointment, spam iron bear
the point is, a skilltree shouldnt be made useful with a single item or stat
it should make sense from the ground up


What about the Frozen Heart?

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A frozen heart with a shield break/fill anointment is a beautiful thing.

i also just bugs me that i “have” to skill into DiB and PD even tho i hate kill skills, just to play with this capstone
i wish i could play this build like…i imagine it to work xD

Personally I think a shield-gate effect should be added to the Deathless because all Deathless builds need it. (Moze or otherwise)

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I think that’s the risk vs reward part of Deathless…

“What do we say to the God of Death”

Meaning you teeter on the edge of FFYL/death for a benefit. For Moze, her red tree is designed for this, but if she has a capstone that’s designed to save her, I feel it should work that way.


I think shield gating would be way to easily abused especially when you factor in bloodletter. Moze can already be immortal but shield gate would make it super easy to do so.
I just wish tenacious defense worked with low hp builds

yea that would require a “shield gate” for this skill
so when your shield is depleted, you HP only gets touched in the next hit


Yeah but if it just stopped the roll over on break and triggered it’d be perfectly fine

yea but that would require said “gate” mechanic
without it, the hit just fully gets through


I’m constantly hearing about Moze 1hp builds getting one-shotted no matter how high the shield is stacked so it could be argued that the risk outweighs the reward even on her.

Meanwhile, the other Vault Hunters have the aditional “risk” of barely any shield boosts (by comparison) and no way to covert healing into shield regen.

Only Zane with barrier can really compensate but that would mean disabling the action skill recharge effect of Calm, Cool and Collected. (i.e. the best skill in the tree)

I guess I can’t speak on other characters using Deathless…I don’t know what benefit they’d get from it.

The risk definitely outweighs reward for Moze…I feel it every time I play, but Moze could have the saving grace of Tenacious Defense. Since capstones are supposed to be game-changers, countering a huge flaw in Deathless with 60K - 200K shields would be a big deal.


considering that any shield gets 1 shotted in this game
no matter how big it is
people just say “dont play 1 hp builds, they are bad”
for a reason^^


I kind of think the drawback of going 1hp is having no healthgate. It’s the entire trade off. I think one of the main issues with Moze red tree is not having a full payoff for removing your health gate. Adding some other benefits and mechanics that pay you off would be a much better change imo. Besides adding shield gate would literally just be the same exact playstyle as health gating but with a blue bar instead of a red bar.

What kind of awesome bonus can we get for going deathless instead? If we’re being honest Moze with a big shield has some pretty high survivability already, she just dies to the things that one shot shields for no reason.


And it’s that trade off that makes Deathless Moze, ironically, the frailest character in the game. Other VHs have the option of Healthgate, Stop-Gap, Recharger or Last Stand, PLUS the speed, damage reduction, and (in your Zane’s case) a physical shield.

I totally agree…it’s not worth it at the moment, but imagine what a small fix to T.D. would do: pair the skill with the Stop Gap for 8-10 seconds of invincibility, use the Recharger to get 100K+ shields back, and (for non-1-HP builds), combine one of those two, while having a shield AND health gate…it just opens up a whole range of options for Moze :+1:

I disagree with this…Enemies hit harder now, especially in DLC. And like I said in my main post, I’m stacking up to 200K shields, and still getting shredded down to nothing, not to mention one-shotted by who knows what…fixing this would be nothing BUT beneficial for Red-tree Moze players.


I mean I’m not sure what you’re doing but between vampyr and rushin offensive, big boom blaster, etc there’s many options that this should be the least of your worries. All I’m saying is adding in shield gate actually doesn’t add a new playstyle to the game. We already have health gate.

“shieldgate” is also not meant to be the same thing as health gate
but more of a thing like
when your shield gets depleted, your hp first gets touched by the next damage source
that would allow effects like TD, recharger, stop gap work with an under 50% HP build