Can we make Tenacious Defense a "Shield-Gate"?

Did they add a cooldown to Stop Gap? Last I checked, it doesn’t have a cooldown.

Anyway, if they did add a shield gate, you could equip a level 1 white shield and be invincible with a Bloodletter and a health regen passive. I’d add the shield gate but give it a 10 sec cooldown or so.

hm
i thought i have read that somewhere. on lootemon it says it has to fully recharge. maybe it was that
yea i understand the mechanical problem
you could also bind that gate to a % shield fill
i think that makes more sense than a timed cooldown but both would probably work

What I mean is that with a low level shield, you could fully regen the shield instantly with a bloodletter and health regen (bloodletter converts health regen to shield regen). Even if shield gate is based on having 100% shield full, you’d be invincible unless a timed cooldown is added to the shield gate.

hm, yea i see
but that IS already possible with a low level stop gap
so i dont know if it even matters anymore
probably just the effects of stop gap, recharger and TD need a “faster” trigger mechanic
to happen before life is touched
if they are inactive, you are killed regardless

I was so disappointed to find out stop gap and last stand did not work with deathless. Not even the recharger works, seems counter intuitive to me. In the description for recharger it says it instantly recharges however it does so after you take health damage so it is not instant.

If TD worked the instant your shield went down and helped prevent getting downed it would be a much better skill. I Would actually consider playing 1hp again, as it is now 1hp makes you so fragile and the huge shield adds little to no real defence in my opinion. There are quite a few attacks in this game that 1 shot your shield. The extra damage isn’t even high enough to give up the survivability. I am pretty sure my green monster build is more powerful and more robust.

Giving up hp for shields offers no positive as it stands. Maybe TD could offer a more resistant shield, it could get more and more damage resistant the lower it gets giving you time to try and recover from damage. That would in keep with the name of the skill but tbh i like how the skill works as it stands And it would be an excellent skill if it worked with 1hp or no health gate builds

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If you use a Snowdrift Deathless you can actually slide and hit a target far away with the snowball and it counts. Not exactly elegant but it works. That being said I don’t understand why TD can work with Snowshoe and Red Card on a 1hp build but not other shields. Why don’t they just change it to work regardless?

That being said…even if they did do that I think the capstone still sort of sucks. I’m sort of with @flightx3aa in that the capstone should probably just be changed to something better that synergizes with the tree better (along with a couple others like FF and FCOWA).

If we are brainstorming ideas for an improvement or change what about something like this…

Short Circuit:
The lower Moze shield gets the more powerful her shield recharge gets. If the shield gets to 10% Moze becomes invulnerable for 3 seconds (with super shield recharge) and starts emitting massive shock novas and adds shock damage to weapons like a temporary shock version of FITSD. Shield must fully recharge to reset skill.

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well, i actually love how the capstone works
i am currently playing it with a full HP build and you basically have 2,4x your shield with a recharger and both times TD will trigger and give you the 30% damage boost
its a lot of sustain and fun gameplay
i dont want it to get replaced by some passive damage reduction lame what ever stuff xD
just wished it would work with 1 HP

3 Likes

The hard-line answer is as much about the damage enemies are dealing as it is the exact mechanic of the capstone. When you have enemies that are one-shotting you regardless of how high your shields are, I already consider that a problem that needs to be addressed.

I’ve run Moze with 2/3 and 3/3 Thin Red Line, with and without a Deathless relic on various shields, and with and without Tenacious Defense. And you know what happens? Regardless of the build, there are enemies that randomly deal hits that cut through all of her shields and even if she has over 50% health, puts her right into FFYL.

Not fighting Wotan, or Scourge, or any other boss, but just random mobs who are capable of dealing a sudden explosive spike of damage. And since enemies aren’t supposed to be scaling anything but health, armor and shields with Mayhem levels, that means it’s a factor of their own base coding for dealing damage to the player. That in and of itself sounds like a bug.

With Moze the issue is incidentally compounded if you go red tree. The devs have preached high and low that they want build accessibility and variability. But if you have to only structure the use of the tree ONE given way for it to work, and it still doesn’t perform the way the skills say it should, that is a failure on their part that needs to be fixed.

Shield-gate is literally the concept Tenacious Defense states on the skill description. The shield should be recharged to 40% capacity after depletion instantly. INSTANTLY, not after proccing the rest of the damage to her health bar. If the skill doesn’t do anything to prevent you from taking damage the way it’s described in the skill description, it is therefor broken.

If the damage is so insanely high that it chews through that 40% recharged shield and deals damage to her health anyways? I might buy that. If it tears through it and then one-shots her into FFYL anyways, regardless of her being at max health or not? See my starting paragraph.

4 Likes

How about this.
On deathless or Moze :
Shield can’t break once while above 50% shield and stays at 1 SP for 0,5 seconds. Cooldown one second.

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Isn’t that just shield gate?

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A bit less than that, but yes. That’s what the thread’s about, isn’t it?

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Thanks to @boombumr Gamma Burst thread, I think Tenacious Defense could be overhauled to function like Gamma Burst, where the pets can not drop below 1 HP.
For this to happen, the skill would have to be an active skill and its icon be displayed above your exp bar alongside kill skills and active skills such as Some for the Road.
So, you have your active immortality and when your shield breaks, the effects wears off, triggering the shield refill and the gun damage boost. After it, you get the effect back once the cooldown ends and your shield fully recharges.

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I want to find a Revengenader with that anoint. That plus 25% OGT.

It’s also fun with a stopgap and lets you play with 2pts in TRL. Get close to shield failure, hop into IB, hop out, get shield up, gun damage, temporary invulnerablity, and shield recharge (if you picked up Full Case).

That explains a lot :joy:

Slaughter Shafts/Takedown/COV Trials this patch have been HELL for Bloodletter builds…

All I’m saying is…hotfix glitch or not, a little Tenacious Defense love could go a long way :smirk:…cmon GBX, do it for ya boy…WxnderBread…I’m everyone’s friend :smiley:

Why don’t we make Tenacious Defense like Axton’s grit, instead?

It was wonderful for axton, and it would work even with 1hp builds because it would just not apply the damage, period. In addition, you would get shield regen (instead of HP regen). Just literally copy/paste the skill but make it so it applies to shields instead.

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Only a “chance” to ignore damage tho? Personally speaking I hate luck-based perks…It would mean Moze could still get one-shotted, and you surviving is up to RNG…

But if it always activated when the shield would deplete (with a cooldown of course) that would be cool

Yep, all we are asking, give us at least 1 sec of invulnerability, and not touch health until TD kicks in.

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I mean, you could increase the chance by a lot (it was a 5 points skill in BL2 but a 10/10 you had a 40% chance and it was :ok_hand: :ok_hand:) or adapt it somehow, but keeping the core of Grit (ignore damage + healing instead) would make TD usable.

Also, don’t sleep on the chance thing, a Grit Axton build was basically immortal.

I see what you’re saying…frankly anything would be an improvement over what we got now

Axton also had a heath gate to support that immortality…that 3-4 sec gate gave him more of a chance for Grit.

I have a shield gate;

I’m a BM+DW Zen stopgap mindsweeper, +61% charge speed on the COM running

2 beacons - rad,cryo,shock
+
2 recursions - cryo,incen,shock,rad respectively and usually with a Ineffable Pear…

Can equip that Bloodletter+Boots and the HP/sheild bar just keeps climbing. My shield broke 10 times in succession… If yall haven’t heard that sound before its pree cool