Can we make Tenacious Defense a "Shield-Gate"?

Borderlands 3 Moze the Gunner
#101

I’m doing just as much damage with this 1hp build that I do with my Blast Master or Green Monster builds that’s what I’m saying. Just as strong as other builds. I’m not going to compare it to current Rocketeer because IB is just absurd atm and literally nothing in the game compares with it.

Actually in most cases doing even more damage because the only way to get more damage would be to take SRPMS and Scrappy which I never use Scrappy so the only thing missing is SRPMS but instead I have 6/3 DM and Phalanx.

#102

you could say that you are dealing about as much damage
using 50/150 rad, DM sure

and you are effectively having less shield than with any build that uses recharger or TD, you are having no health gate
the fact that you are good at sprinting and shooting or just dodging enemies in general, does not help in this comparison in any regard

you can kill the hardest content in monster hunter, naked
it says NOTHING about build balance

#103

Yes this is needed, agree. 300% is nowhere near where it used to be so now 150% compares and 6/3 (and phalanx) makes up for not having bonus damage from the COM for the most part. That’s kind of how builds are you need to take advantage of everything you can if you want it to perform well including the right weapons the right anoints the right playstyle. The idea that I play well makes my opinion invalid is just silly though, when people are comparing Moze to other VH’s they are constantly talking about pro players who literally play as a job and nobody ever brings that up to invalidate anything.

#104

yea but that was only half of my comment^^
we are talking about survivability here…mostly
i dont need the damage boni in SoR to be changed to v1, v2 what ever
but i would like it to be usable with 1 hp builds

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#106

What happens if you don’t invest into short fuze now? Btw completely unrelated to the subject matter, I’m just worried I have to go short fuze if I do red tree, green tree

#107

I suggested a 3-second invincibility window, and a 10-15 second cooldown…all I’m asking for is the chance to make a comeback with TD, instead of dying outright…

Which ever way it goes, Tenacious Defense–a skill that prevents you from being shield-less–should offer a little breathing room, even in 1-HP builds…it’s not “ridiculous” to not wanna die :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

All pets and Mech got a massive buff, and everyone loved it right? That’s because we finally got more options to play, and that’s what Borderlands is about…having options that all feel viable, and cater to the player…no matter what build they play

So to @satoramaciej 's point, you shutting down ideas to make things better helps no one…

(Not a personal attack, I just don’t like your point)

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#108

giving (any character) a shield gate would simply allow moze to use TD with 1 HP and all characters using stop gap and recharger with 1 hp
nothing else
nothing would be broken
TD requires you to refill your shield and recharger and stop gap have a 20 seconds cooldown

you could say that this combination + rushin offensive is broken
but rushin offensive is broken anyway

2 Likes
#109

Short Fuse is pretty significant right now for sure. I’ll try it later though and see how it works out. What kind of build were you thinking? 1hp Bloodletter or like Green Monster or another com or? And did you want to make use of Iron Bear or no?

#110

No Iron Bear. 1 hp bloodletter and bottomless mags, no grenade spam, Big shield. I want to see if I can use something like the damned with it, but i guess the main weapon if I was to go with efficiency would be the monarch, or a close second dictator. I rather be using AR mode Faisor, ogre, super shreddifier, gatling gun, but I just don’t have the anoints to test if it works well. I just don’t want to go into short fuze for some reason, I guess I’m anti-meta.

green monster, probz not since we can’t get a big shield and keep sustain.

#111

Well I tried it. Definitely wouldn’t recommend the Monarch you really need something you can sprint and shoot with to keep up on shield really well in a place like Slaughter Shaft or Takedown. The damage was actually good enough but you are going to need a better gun then “AR mode Faisor, ogre, super shreddifier, gatling gun” these. Sadly they have just fallen off for Mh10. I tried with Kaoson/Sandhawk/Beacon/Flipper and I did try the Monarch but it was meh. They all performed viably.
This playstyle is going to revolve around Rushin Offensive for a lot of healing so you really need something comfortable to shoot while sprinting. For me the Sandhawk was by far the best gun in this build as it’s easy to be accurate sprinting(single fire mode) does a ton of damage and makes it easy to get crit kills for Force Feedback.

Definitely want to at least hop in and out of IB for using the 75% anoint and throw a nade every so often for the damage anoint too.

It was an awkward playstyle for me but it definitely worked. I went to Forge in green up to 5/5 PD in red and Force Feedback. 5 FITSD just one in MOD for the leftover point.

Cryo is going to be your worst enemy when relying on Rushin Offensive. Another good time to make use of hopping in/out of IB is when cryod to proc FCOWA.

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#112

Hmm… I guess I have to go short fuze now sadly. There is an apparent way to make it work without short fuze, but it’s jakobs only. Maybe the guns are viable with short fuze, and I run rogue lite so I never die.

EDIT:
Naw it’s pretty ■■■■■■■ bad. OG guns suck lmao

#113

id say any low speed build works without short fuse
i dont know what it would add to launcher builds

#114

I think being a Moze main comes with having a little bit of masochism, some more than others.

2 Likes
#115

Did they add a cooldown to Stop Gap? Last I checked, it doesn’t have a cooldown.

Anyway, if they did add a shield gate, you could equip a level 1 white shield and be invincible with a Bloodletter and a health regen passive. I’d add the shield gate but give it a 10 sec cooldown or so.

#116

hm
i thought i have read that somewhere. on lootemon it says it has to fully recharge. maybe it was that
yea i understand the mechanical problem
you could also bind that gate to a % shield fill
i think that makes more sense than a timed cooldown but both would probably work

#117

What I mean is that with a low level shield, you could fully regen the shield instantly with a bloodletter and health regen (bloodletter converts health regen to shield regen). Even if shield gate is based on having 100% shield full, you’d be invincible unless a timed cooldown is added to the shield gate.

#118

hm, yea i see
but that IS already possible with a low level stop gap
so i dont know if it even matters anymore
probably just the effects of stop gap, recharger and TD need a “faster” trigger mechanic
to happen before life is touched
if they are inactive, you are killed regardless

#119

I was so disappointed to find out stop gap and last stand did not work with deathless. Not even the recharger works, seems counter intuitive to me. In the description for recharger it says it instantly recharges however it does so after you take health damage so it is not instant.

If TD worked the instant your shield went down and helped prevent getting downed it would be a much better skill. I Would actually consider playing 1hp again, as it is now 1hp makes you so fragile and the huge shield adds little to no real defence in my opinion. There are quite a few attacks in this game that 1 shot your shield. The extra damage isn’t even high enough to give up the survivability. I am pretty sure my green monster build is more powerful and more robust.

Giving up hp for shields offers no positive as it stands. Maybe TD could offer a more resistant shield, it could get more and more damage resistant the lower it gets giving you time to try and recover from damage. That would in keep with the name of the skill but tbh i like how the skill works as it stands And it would be an excellent skill if it worked with 1hp or no health gate builds

3 Likes
#120

If you use a Snowdrift Deathless you can actually slide and hit a target far away with the snowball and it counts. Not exactly elegant but it works. That being said I don’t understand why TD can work with Snowshoe and Red Card on a 1hp build but not other shields. Why don’t they just change it to work regardless?

That being said…even if they did do that I think the capstone still sort of sucks. I’m sort of with @flightx3aa in that the capstone should probably just be changed to something better that synergizes with the tree better (along with a couple others like FF and FCOWA).

If we are brainstorming ideas for an improvement or change what about something like this…

Short Circuit:
The lower Moze shield gets the more powerful her shield recharge gets. If the shield gets to 10% Moze becomes invulnerable for 3 seconds (with super shield recharge) and starts emitting massive shock novas and adds shock damage to weapons like a temporary shock version of FITSD. Shield must fully recharge to reset skill.

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#121

well, i actually love how the capstone works
i am currently playing it with a full HP build and you basically have 2,4x your shield with a recharger and both times TD will trigger and give you the 30% damage boost
its a lot of sustain and fun gameplay
i dont want it to get replaced by some passive damage reduction lame what ever stuff xD
just wished it would work with 1 HP

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