Can we talk about Mayhem 3 and its modifiers?

I get that the modifiers are supposed to encourage build diversity and get you to think about your build so that it can take on these incredible challenges, and not just have one loadout you run through every map. But on Mayhem 3 specifically the problem with them becomes most apparent. There need to be some limits as to which modifiers can happen together and on which maps. In the given example the entire map had only a boss in it and the boss was flesh with -50% to all guns and with an already bloated Health pool. Also I have no idea how the two gun type modifiers stack and why those can be present at the same time, what am I even supposed to use? When something like this happens during farming you can only save quit and try again to reroll the modifiers and that just seems like a poorly designed feature.
P.S. the entire -50% damage with guns and +skill damage and cooldown doesn’t work with some vaulthunters. As a Fl4k main what am I supposed to do Rakk a boss to death? Again just doesn’t influence diversity of builds if the options aren’t even available to your character.
mayhem

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Have you tried turning it off and back on again?

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Ah for sure! Then you get -50% gun dmg and +45% hp to all enemies, it just works!
modifyme

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But then sometimes you get things like +50% AR and sniper , - bullet damage + elemental damage, when fighting a flesh boss and they like… die in 20 seconds even with the +45% HP because Rowan’s call is spamming endless crits that are doing like 60K per hit.

Where do I sign to get rid of the enemy having 30% chance of reflecting bullets? I utterly despise that modifier.

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Having both +weapon type and -weapon type at the same time results in reduced damage with all weapon types. Your damage is multiplied by each separately, in your example if you did 100 damage it would be multiplied by 1.50 and then 0.5 resulting in 75 damage. Lots of people have been assuming they cancel out but thats just not how the game does math.

Here are some suggestion to improve mayhem mode quoted from another topic on the subject:

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^^^This!

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Mayhem Mode honestly seems a bit lazily put together for something that’s supposed to be for the endgame grinding. While I can appreciate some randomness to make things interesting the choice of modifiers and the somewhat ridiculous stacking values greatly outweigh majority positive effects given. (Reflect your damage boosted bullets back into your face and then your no longer happy about the boost)

In my opinion Mayhem Mode might have been better off if you just implemented the L33t h4X0rz mutators and modifiers from Pre-Sequel…

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Well i guess ill compile a list of modifier combinations that make no sense as they come up… So here im supposed to use normal bullets or wait no, what build is this for?
(just in general + to X and then - to X makes no sense)
modifiers%20lol

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I think they should add a metric around how many times players are simply reloading their game…

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P.S. When both -50% modifiers are applied the result is that every weapon type deals a bit less damage, as the negatives apply first.

They dont deal less damage, they cancel each other out. you get -50% and +50% respectively.

Heres someone that actually did the testing, its not how the game does maths.

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Yeah you are right, my bad on that one.

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allnegative
Best modifiers yet! And it was against on Gravewards map, so only health enemies.

I am probably the only player in B3 that likes the 30% reflect modifier. It is far superior to all the damage nerfing effects and I don’t seem to have the same problem with it as others do.

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Depends what build you are running, it doesnt really affect torgue sticky weapons nor melee or grenade builds. Also if you are fighting enemies that are far away (like Graveward) you can escape your own bullets by simply jumping… But for example close quarters shotgun builds simply die as soon as this modifier is active. GBX even noticed this as a problem and said that it will be addressed in the next patch.

I would disagree with the close combat shotgun with the reflect build. I use graveward as my example.

When he gets knocked down and you get the close range crit shots, as long as I am straffing as I am shooting I do not gib myself. If I stand still I just die straight away xD. I usually kill him during his stunned phase.

Graveward was given as an example of a long range fight. The shotgun thing i mentioned was about general mobbing, where you can move as freely like in a boss arena.

I don’t mind reflect because all you have to do is strafe while you shoot. Zane’s barrier can block the reflected projectiles. The Transformer shield can absorb them. It does become more of a nuisance when you mob, but it’s not that bad.

I dont really know of any scenarios where you can’t really freely move or have such limited space that you cant freely move. If I am being slowed by Cryo I do get hit* more often from the reflects.