Can't decide which Bloodletter does more good

So, I got one that’s better defensive wise,and the other damage wise. Primary Demolition Woman build

Defensive:
+3 Thin Red Line which has me at 6/3 and +2 Phalanx Doctrine-but NO Desperate Measures
+542 Health Regen
34% Splash Damage Radius
58% Jakobs Crit Damage

Offensive:
+3 Desperate Measures, so all that extra damage is gone-no points in it, also +2 Phalanx
19% global weapon crit damage
33% weapon accuracy
33% pistol damage

Right now I’m sitting on 186K shields, which is nice, but I haven’t started testing how much the loss of full Desperate Measures will affect combat yet. So, thoughts?

The second one has better passives. However without getting to 4/3(-80%HP) Thin Red Line you aren’t going to gain much from Desperate Measures.

I would say they are both pretty similar, the main advantage with the first one is being able to use the Pearl(DLC2) whereas the second is much more Deathless oriented.

I use Deathless right now as is. I guess I can mull over my points again, see what I can move around.

If you are using a Deathless I would suggest no points in Thin Red Line.

Really? Cause right now I’m at 186K shields.

That should be from the Deathless, I don’t think it stacks with TRL.

I think it did, because I went from 3/3 normally, then to 6/3 with the mod. I’ll have to check at some point though, you might be right.

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If you are going Deathless, I would suggest saving the points and put them elsewhere in the tree. You do get additional shield capacity, but once you have 100% shield capacity plus Phalanx Doctrine (which I would assume you also are spec’ing in a Bloodletter build), your shield capacity already is crazy high. Unfortunately the Deathless doesn’t stack with TRL (in other words those are calculated separately as +100% from the Deathless and then +60%, or whatever you have, in TRL). You get the bonuses from both, but neither multiplies the other (the shield capacity increase you get from TRL does not affect the increase from Deathless, they are both calculated separately off the base capacity of the shield/health value in question, and then added to your shield capacity separately). Hopefully that makes sense, I am not the best at explaining sometimes.

The point is that you are definitely getting into diminishing returns with combining TRL and Deathless. Personally I would put those points from TRL elsewhere. I believe that second Bloodletter you listed above, plus a well-rolled Deathless would be the way to go for this type of build.

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Hey, thank you so much for the explanation.
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Glad you posted this, I was going to get into more details when I got home.

I agree that the second COM listed with a Deathless is going to provide the best performance.

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Yes absolutely agree the second has better stats and bonus rolls. Given you run a deathless it provides the full 100% damage through desperate measures (assuming you put 3 skill points into it which I highly recommend).
You could use a Pistol like a prompt critical or Beacon as an example and do quite food damage.
It looks like it maybe a level 61ish COM?

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Well in the end I did go back to the more damage oriented Bloodletter-total Shield drop from 186K to about 150K odd, so.

There is some weirdness involved with total shield calculations between TRL vs Deathless.

Thin Red Line can offer better shield capacity because it calculates total HP after bonuses from gear and Guardian Rank. Deathless simply adds your base HP without figuring all bonuses.

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Does a Front Loader shield further make all this math insane? Cause I have one of those equpped.

I thought front loader does the same as deathless and converts based on your max health.
A simple test to equip and unequip it should work once you’ve removed the TRL points and de deathless.

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Deathless does not reserve hp like Front Loader and Thin Red Line. It just doubles your shield capacity and sets your health to 1.

For example with double healthy Plus Ultra i have 12k shield and 60k hp. Slap on a Deathless and I have 25k shields and 1 hp. But then putting 3 points in TRL shields go up to 111k, since I’m converting 60% hp to shield capacity which then gets doubled by the Deathless. With +6 TRL shield goes up to 200k+

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You’re right I should have checked that first. My bad.

The second option is better 100%. If you’re sacrificing health gate anyway, I wouldn’t focus so much on max shield capacity if I were you, even if the superior option gives you less. You will still come across enemies that can one-shot you regardless of which variant you pick.

I’m aware that it’s not one of your listed options but if you can find such a drop in your travels, what you really want to look for is +3 DM and +2 TRL because at 5/3, a point in TRL is essentially equivalent in value to a point in DM as far as the bonus gun damage is concerned.

If you’re using a Bloodletter at all no matter the build then there’s no point in the Deathless artefact when you can get max 1hp and +100% gun damage from the class mod alone, and then complement that with the Victory Rush which gives you V1 bonus damage as well as movement speed. This will do a lot more for your DPS than +2 Phalanx Doctrine as well.

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