Casino DLC conspiracy theory

I’m going to introduce a personal conspiracy theory here, please feel free to tear apart, but I’ve been thinking about it since my first run through the Moxxi DLC…

I think Timothy in the Moxxi DLC is actually Handsome Jack himself!

Yes, I know, we all killed (or let Lilith kill) Handsome Jack in the Lair of the Warrior.
However, we also know that Jack had complete control over Hyperion tech. We also know that that tech is able to DIgistruct people around (fast travel being canon or not, I’m saying it is since it is required to complete one mission in BL2 (getting back to Sanctuary from the Highlands)), and my contention has always been;
If you can digistruct people, the process of digistruction must include storage (temporary or not) of that person’s physical and mental states.
Hence the Jack killed in BL2 had standing orders to have his essence recreated from the last save on news of his current bodies death.

So when Jack was killed in the Lair, his body was re-spawned by his minions. With Pandora temporarily lost to him, he fled to the Casino (which we didn’t know about) as a wholly owned and safe place for him to regroup.
Unfortunately, his systems were not up to date enough to recognize this eventuality, and they reacted to the news as real and locked things up without recognizing him. Hence his position as we start the DLC.
Why did this come to mind?
First, Timothy is a little too Jack-like. Yes yes, we are presented with a hand wave that says Oh, a little Jack DNA makes him act like Jack sometimes. Hogwash. Little Timmy never acted Jack-like in TPS. And the slips in the DLC are a way too accurate replication of Jack behavior.
Second, the purge of the body doubles referenced in the DLC. Timothy killed the other body doubles, he admits that. There is zero real reason why Timothy would do that, banding together to take out Pretty Boy would have been a more reasonable (and jack-mimicking)action. But in this case he had to eliminate the doubles because he didn’t need them any more, and when he escapes the Casino he cannot have the doubles also escaping and confusing the remnants of the Hyperion evil command group as to which was the real Jack.
Third, his insistence on quizzing Moxxi on whether she knew he was not Jack. This is played off as Timmy being a love-struck puppy about Mox. In my mind it’s more sinister, he is probing the most reliable test person he can find to see if she believes his masquerade as a body double. If he can fool Moxxi, he can fool the rest of the universe.
Fourth, he’s a little too happy at the end of the DLC. Finally getting out of the Casino is nice and all, but I would expect relief or a whew moment, not the kick up your heels as you leave moment we see. He’s clearly excited that his deception worked and he has a chance to get back out into the galaxy and start wreaking havoc again.
There are other little hints too. I think Jack is alive and now, after getting out of the Casino, very well and ready to start his climb back to super villain status.
–RoA

6 Likes

In before everyone else says the New-U stations aren’t “real” otherwise Roland wouldn’t be dead either. :grin:

I’m also going with Moxxi’s ability to tell them apart.

1 Like

I know, I’m not talking about New-U but fast travel. And since Fast Travel is required in the mission I mention I firmly take it as canon, despite what the developers say :slight_smile:
And Roland not being respawned is all about Jack’s control of the network.
–RoA

1 Like

Oh I hear ya but that lil debate is over a decade old by now i think :laughing:

Edit: Okay 7 years, for some reason I was thinking Roland died in 1 and I KNOW that isn’t true…

1 Like

The new-u specifically states you cant respawn if you die in a cutscene…so theres that…

6 Likes

Which is clearly Roland, so yes, I can see that.

But Jack did not die in a cut scene, he died to actual live fire from me or Lilith, so logically and reenforced by that very load text he CAN AND DID respawn.
Non causa pro causa logic is soooo very real.
–RoA

3 Likes

Tim mentioned he just wanted one thing out of the VIP tower but we are ever told straight out, we are just left to assume it was a second date or a x rated pic of Moxxi.
Then we get into a hand that I thought was grafted on and he claimed irremovable being sliced off to stop the screw you I’m rich protocol.

I’m leaning more towards Jack being able to use his body doubles as back up bodies, he would just have to have a way to up load subconscious thoughts and memories.

Once I think about it unless Krieg and Gauge are considered to be in the main story line if he wanted revenge he’s only got Zer0 and the moon left.

2 Likes

I am very comfortable with this option, thank you! I’ll go re-read Phillip Jose Farmers To your scattered bodies go again in celebration.
–RoA

3 Likes

And New-U costs $$.

Not everybody desires or wants to pay for immortality, not knowing if you’re going to perish and at that time of death do you even have funds to pay for it?

I know GB says they aren’t cannon, but I have my reasons lol - not everyone buys life insurance even tho it probably makes sense. Vault Hunters going into full-time active duty pay for New-U because they know as long as VH’s be killing VH’s be getting paid.

1 Like

I agree, I think it’s a possibility that it was actually Jack all along in the casino. :smiley: There are a lot of suspicious/vague occurrences throughout the DLC, especially that bit at the end where he’s replaying his last convo with Moxxi in his head ("…so I didn’t fool you even a little?") His expression is like “wait… holy crap my stupid luck!!!”

A simple explanation could be: It was simply one of his body doubles in the Vault of the Warrior (they have full access and clearance) that he sent down. When things went south there, he fled Helios to hide on his casino, and got trapped there for years. Decided to try to pass himself off as one of his body doubles since everyone wanted Jack dead at that point.

1 Like

Really? The body doubles are the only ones that could control the casino. They would either be killed for their hands or end up going to war over Jack’s wealth. Timmy, I assume, just laid low and only fought when the other doubles came to get rid of him. He might have even been more of a target, if we allow that Timmy was probably the most notorious of the “true” body doubles.
I’d really rather Jack just stays dead at this point. 3 games now with a heavily Jack influenced story, 2 with him as the villain. If we can have Timothy to get an occasional bit of Dameon Clarke’s glorious voice I’ll be happy and content.

4 Likes

I remember reading somewhere that GB initially planned to have jack as the main villain BL3 aswell but changed their mind because they thought to much jack could be bad.

Imo, it can never be to much of jack. To me, jack is part of borderlands DNA the same way darth vader, the emperor and his siths are to starwars. Jack is the typ of villain that can keep showing up, and it would never get old. This DLC felt more borderlands to me than anything in the base game did.

I really like the idea of it being jack claiming to be timothy. He’s a psychotic genius, i expect jack to do something like this. Jack were afraid of moxxi because she’s probably the only person who could recognize him and not timothy being afraid of moxxi because of one date they had.

For someone with a dozen of body doubles and infinite wealth, jack died easy… i don’t buy it. I really hope if there’s a BL4 in the future, jack is back, in a big way. Could be the real coorperate war i’ve heard about.

I don’t think BL4 can’t afford another weak new, original main story. Go back to what works, there’s so much they can do with jack. Leave the the rest to DLC.

They’re lose so much by not using jack. Loaderbots, hyperion maps and all that is gone too and it’s pretty big part of what makes borderlands so cool to me.

2 Likes

Off topic, but BL4 IMO should be darker, gritty and the overwhelming power that threatens “human civilization” be of incredible weight. VH’s are now deemed Guardians. What do they guard exactly and why the needs for such exceptional human/robot warriors.

The Industrial Military Complex needs to come under great threat, with all the corporate bodies involved. Perhaps we will get to see this IP’s version of our homeworld.

1 Like

There’s another lil problem with Timothy as Jack, does anyone believe that Jack’s rakk hive sized ego would ever let Pretty Boy do any of that to him?

2 Likes

Makes sense he’d let Pretty Boy take the reigns like that if he was keeping a low profile to not get found out. I have a harder time believing his massive ego would allow him to pretend to be Timothy at all.

4 Likes

Looking back on this, I’m wondering if maybe we didn’t kill Timothy (or maybe another doppleganger) in the Vault of the Warrior at the end of BL2? If we remember, when Jack grabbed the vault symbol at the end of TPS he saw visions of what was going to happen. He would have known he would be gunned down right there, so wouldn’t he have planned to not be there?

1 Like

Perhaps he didn’t see the future, only instructions on what to do, but Lilith cut it short and ruined Jacks chance at being the first human guardian.

I always suspected Lilith was going to be a villain, she was too hotheaded and violent, such as ordering Athenas execution.

1 Like

Timothy has “YOU ARE NOT JACK” scratched all over his walls. He’s happy Moxxi saw through him pretending to be Jack because it boosts his confidence that he is still himself.

I think some of you are working yourself into tizzies coming up with soap opera storylines to try to justify bringing Jack back. I may not like Typhon and the Calypsos destroying the entire backstory of the series but we’ve had enough Jack.

Oh, and the New-U thing doesn’t just affect Roland. It means NO villain in the entirety of the series bothered to sign up for the New-U, or that the New-U explains why they respawn, in which case no action the players ever take matter because the bad guys just come back to life. Trying to cram the New-U into canon makes less than no sense. IT MAKES NEGATIVE SENSE PEOPLE!

3 Likes

That’s not my desire, I’m happy to have Jack gone. I just don’t think he is, whatever my desire is.

Kinda like Marvel movies…

If Fast Travels are Canon (not New-U’s) then, as I’ve said often, reviving anyone who has used a fast travel is possible as I’ve described.
It’s Science!
–RoA

That’s assuming that the Fast Travel can or does store that data. It could just be breaking down the base particles of the body/items being carried, transporting them across space, and rebuilding them in the exact same configuration instantly. It’s not exactly hard science fiction, so the lore can put whatever restrictions they want on it. I’d say that limit is reached if the technology has the ability to break the story structure of the game.

2 Likes