CHAIN STUNS, and the CC domination

It’s not too bad. I don’t get chained stun often even while playing a melee character. I do agree that any cc chain is always a cheap tactic in every pvp games. It doesn’t matter if it is solo or team oriented,

compared to every other char i mentioned, its the biggest/easiest to reliably hit even with low accuracy/recoil- his has got to be in the top 5 with toby of all chars, yeah?

I will concede that Kelvin has the easiest crit to hit and his crit is fairly large but I don’t think it’s top 5 biggest. Out of the tanks he probably has the biggest crit to body size ratio.

sry but this isn’t that easy, you can set 3 healers on a montana, if he’s wounded and focussed he will go down, no matter what the healer does.
most healers are squishy, most BB can solo a healer, 2 pple who focus a healer and he’ll be dead in a flash, most good teams I played with or against, are focussing the healers first, a wound and one single stun is enough to merely instant kill a miko, 1 tank can’t hold off 5 pple who are focussing your healer, so it’s basically not his fault…

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I usually find myself agreeing with you on a lot of things, but it is really hard for me to understand this idea that Battleborn tanks have so much power to determine whether their healers live or die. Are you honestly so confident that if you’re Boldur, say, and Benedict hits your Alani with a Hawkeye, you can save her?

How does a tank “soak up” stun when Sublimate and Blink Storm drop? Or when Gali can scatter an entire team with Blight Town pull? You are a vastly higher level player than me, so I’m not questioning you do it - but how do you do it?

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I don’t think CC cleansing is as powerful as people seem to think it is.

Considering how short stun durations are (1-2 seconds), to use a CC cleanse effectively, you need to use the ability the very same second that your ally is subjected to it. It’s not as if supports are constantly staring at all of their allies at all times just waiting for one of them to be stunned.

There already are items that allow for CC cleansing (Arcship Buoy) but it’s still not considered good enough to bother with (largely because it has a crippling ICD that can be wasted on cleansing a slow when you really want to save it for a stun).

Btw, the thread discussing fixing CC Duration gear so that it’s actually worth taking was mine. I’m still curious if there’s a reason for not doing the resistance idea that I had in mind that doesn’t boil down to “I don’t like RNG” (even though there’s already plenty of RNG in the game already that no one has a problem with, like KU’s Bola bounce, AI targeting preferences, etc.).

CCs are too short in duration to justify cleansing effects or duration reduction, not common enough over a short time frame to justify a diminishing returns curve (a squishy character can die from a single 2 sec stun so DR wouldn’t really accomplish anything), too varied in their effects to implement a different countermeasure for each CC, etc.

The “chance to completely resist a CC” solution might not be as elegant as some would like and breaks the illusion of the game being “purely skill driven” (it’s not), but it’s definitely the most effective way of inhibiting the CC metagame without rendering it completely irrelevant.

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I’ve got a crazy idea. What if one of Beatrix’s debuffs makes the enemy cc not work?!?

What if KU drones made the ally immune to the first cc they are hit with?

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In most cases, yes. Especially with the global ult callouts, hearing deande ult is an instant cue for me to turn around and dash/shieldthrow/pull them out of it (you can also CC her out of her ult while she is ulting, so if you are alani, try bubbling yourself right before her ult hits you). Sublimate is definitely a strong CC (and one of the reasons we have Kelvin at S+ on our current tier list), and difficult to stop as a tank. You can, however, cancel it with a boldurdash, ghalt/SA pull, or a sublimate of your own (you both get stunned). If anything, it’s the followup I’ll be trying to mitigate (hopefully my healer was behind me, so I revive from the stun first, and are in position to block followup CC). For hawkeye, you can really only try to bodyblock, which can be difficult. Hopefully, you prevent him from getting hawkeye off in the first place. He may be strong, but he can be bullied pretty hard if he goes deep for a pick.

My post was, of course, a slight exaggeration. There are times where you simply get outplayed (e.g. the enemy waiting until you’ve blown CDs). However, in general, it’s the tank’s responsibility to peel for the healer, and the healers responsibility to keep the tank from dying, and everyone else’s responsibility to not be taking excessive damage.

I was thinking more of Blink Storm after Sublimate, which I’ve seen some of the Japanese PS4 teams doing lately. They Sublimate the tank/team CC then use Deande to grab the rest, followed by Paradigm and sometimes WOTW.

This is a common issue in most mobas. Smite and lol being the big ones.

That’s the magical opposite end of RNG where it always works. And usually gives even more than you were counting on

Doesn’t smite have something that allows you to cancel a cc but it costs more each use or something similar?

Ablative CC protection is a good idea though it would need to be on all support characters (or at least a majority of them), imo, so that a single support character doesn’t become a necessity of the meta.

I would only make it automatic for Reyna (e.g. Shield Booster allows her and the target to resist the next CC effect; this would give her a bit of “anti-CC” specialization without being too powerful).

For other characters...
  • Alani - Either replace Karakafruit Express with a new helix that gives the target of her max Osmosis Wellspring the ability to resist the next CC within 5 seconds or put it on Extremophile to make it not completely worthless (except for lore grinding). In this way, you have to choose between the awesome DR of Full Saturation or CC ablation.
  • Miko - My first instinct is to replace Sticky Spores with a helix that gives any ally directly hit by Cloud of Spores the ability to resist the next CC effect within 10 seconds, though there’s probably someone that would be deeply upset losing Stick Spores. This forces the player to choose between strong CC capability (via Trail of Spores or Sporeshock) or the ability to counter CC.
  • Ambra - I’m honestly not sure where Ambra would get this, but I could feasibly see her not getting access to CC resistance since she already has such an awesome tool kit. One option might be to put it on Soothing Sunlight, such that players that consume the Sunspot resist the next CC effect within 5 seconds, though I only recommend this because I don’t ever see anyone take this.
  • Kid Ultra - My gut instinct is to replace Reassembling Drones (hitting with Bola’s reduces the duration of Support Drone by 20%) with an effect that prevents Support Drones from healing and instead has them sacrifice themselves to prevent CC effects from applying. This would then force players to choose between Bola Bounce (which is incredibly powerful) and Bank Shot (which is also incredibly powerful). This is primarily driven by my sense that no one really takes Reassembling Drones, however. If you can’t tell, I’d really love to get my hands on some helix use metrics to try and shore up or replace the the ones that no one ever takes.
  • Kleese - I’m not really sure where to put it on Kleese. Intuitively, I’d want to see it be on level 4, along with Rift Network, and have an effect such as “Allies within range of your Energy Rifts are immune to CC. Whenever an ally within range of your Energy Rifts is hit with a CC effect, the nearest Energy Rift is destroyed.” To do this, however, you’d have to mess around with his helices quite a bit.
  • Ernest - Even though he’s not technically a “Supporter” (even if he is mechanically thanks to his Power Egg), his Defense Mode Power Egg could me made much more useful by providing a kind of ablative CC for allies in range. Something like “While in Defense Mode, allies within range of your Power Egg are immune to CC. Whenever an ally within range of your Power Egg is hit with a CC effect, the Power Egg takes damage (33.33% of max hp).”
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Not necessarily for all characters.

Kelvin for example would still be able to sublimate but it wouldn’t stun.

Galilea would still have the amp damage from desecrate but not the silence or pull.

[quote=“legendoflink2288, post:36, topic:1553859, full:true”]Not necessarily for all characters.
[/quote]

Not necessarily for any character since, afaik, there are no abilities in the game whatsoever that only apply a CC effect, but it’s a bit specific and programmatically complex to cut out specific mechanics of abilities (and just makes it a hyperspecific bit of character minutiae that people have to watch out for when playing against Beatrix; it’d be even worse if it was a helix option so it didn’t necessarily always happen with her).

Marquis’s Temporal Distortion (without Time Killer helix, anyways).

Yeah but some skills only apply cc and do minor damage. Without the cc the minor damage is almost pointless.

I’m just spit balling. I don’t know what will make the meta better but something needs to happen about cc.

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I said something to this effect when people were asking for buff based character with cleansing, well put.

If the healer dies it’s because they can’t handle a 1v1 in this game. Every class can be deadly (except supports)

It’s not a supports place to be overly lethal.

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In this game it isn’t a supports place to be lethal at all, that’s left for tanks!