Character Changes, Community Thoughts

Being bored and with Gearbox announcing they will be changing a list of characters and their skills in the near future with updates, I was curious to see what people thought, specifically, would make the character more balanced/better and/or more tolerable than what they already are.

To be specific, don’t just say “-insert character name here- needs a nerf”. Name certain things and what you would do to change said character.

My example would be Galilea. It’s not really an argument on how strong she already is. But I believe having her lvl 1 pull and then a lvl 4 silence gives her too much levity over lane. I would suggest putting the two on the same helix option, to give players a choice of options, rather than just giving them both. As it stands the pull is kinda awkward (more on that in a second) and just kinda brings the entire lane crashing down in a whirlpool of doom. It’s ‘awkward’ because the animation hasn’t been smoothed out. If it were a fluid pull the frame (or like half a second) where characters “land” wherever they are pulled do then her terror wouldn’t act like a second psuedo stun. It’s very slight, but if you pay very close attention to it, it’s there. Pull option would be there for pulling in specific targetsor disrupting the team, much like Rath’s pop up and the silence would be there for crowd control. One or the other, pull or silence and not at lvl 1 would be my suggestion on her.

3 Likes

I’m Interested in how they will affect alani and kid ultra, currently they are one of the top picks for support. A quality of life change for alani for me would be remapping her self heal to the reload button so I don’t have to look away (up or down) to heal myself or waste a wellspring on a target who was in range and for whatever reason is knocked out of range.

Also for alani, I’d like for her healing to be toned down a bit. What I mean by this is that she can keep her teammates alive through situations which they shouldn’t well, live. She can keep people who dive in enemy territory up with ease, and sure one could focus her to remedy this, but she’s usually swathed by allies in the back, and with certain helices becomes a slippery fish girl. Wellspring wouldn’t be touched cuz she kinda needs it, but have the geyser heal potency lowered at level 1 but scale with each level.

really hope this comes in the rework, the pull itself kinda works like a silence, in the sense that it can interrupt skills and actions, the silence is just icing on the cake.

1 Like

To be honest I find the fact pushback, knockback, and the like put your ability on cooldown when you have not actually used it, I think only silence should do that

1 Like

Reyna -

Helix 3 - Slightly (slightly) increasing the plasma blast radius of plasma cannon in the helix choice PLASMA BURST.

Helix 4 - Find some way to somehow re-work helix 4 that gives Reyna the ability to both take vital protocol and then best defense. My recommendation would be to move best defense mutation down to Helix 7.

Revising the mutation Calling the Shots and also revising the lvl 7 helix choice Shield Sapper to make them more useful

Reyna’s ULT now has the built in ability to follow her naturally without waiting to lvl 10.

1 Like

Whiskey Foxtroy
A major one - to me - whiskey’s big weakness (too big) is the ease at which he gets rushed down.

My changes are just to WFT early game which I feel lacks heavily heavily.

  1. Build in Weighed Down into base concept of Sticky Bomb.
  2. Give Whiskey 2 SCRAP’s at START and not just one
  3. Build in Swiss Cheese as a base concept of Scrap Cannon
  4. Completely rework helix 8
    5)Put Flak Off at Helix 1 (where it is) along with Scrap Bank on the left side of Helix 1. This gives the player the option of using scrap as either a major Damage Amplifier/ Support char (4 charges) vs 2 really good push back emergency escape tools
  5. Doing change 3 and 5 also eliminates original helix 2 completely which shifts sight helix to 2, method of sticky usage from 4 to 3, regen from 5 to 4, and napalm from 6 to 5. I specifically think napalm should come at 5 and not 6.

The rest I can leave up to your imagination but just little tweaks. WFT is perhaps the most used char I see in BB but also always seems to me to be one of the worst chars when the game is over.

His main function right now is a counterplay to the tobys and kleeses and montanas etc as a long range poker but guys like marquis and thorn can poke better and offer better functional wave clear/utlity …and hes a liability in close range (outside of OD) + subpar in mid range(outside of OD) and just doesn’t have much utility outside of big character poker the majority of a game.

Napalm is cool and all but waiting until 6 is like…in an average game of incursion…pretty much everyone not named Reyna has some form of functional wave clear ability by the time they ding 6.

Pushback doesn’t do that.

1 Like

I agree about gally. I said something similar in one of the many gally balance discussions. I think just swapping the pull and wound at lvl 1 with the damage and healing at 4 might be enough. There is still the slow though. What do you think?

I think boulders cooldowns are too short. 15 seconds is not much and he has a native 20% on axe recovery. Raths are 15 and 17 and attikus has 18 and 25. Is it because they are tied to his ultimate? That just makes it worse, I think.

Knockback like boulder and Montana do

I know, but push backs and knock backs are 2 entirely different things. For example if I’m in the process of using a paradigm shift and I get pushed back by benedicts liftoff or ambra’s staff slam or whatever it is, my Ult isn’t going to be canceled like it would with a stun silence pull knock up or knock back.

2 Likes

Well I knockback, sorry about the miscommunication (and sorry that sounds sarcastic)

I know you said that you want specific changes, but some of the nerfs we need the most I don’t really know for sure how to handle. I know that right now, with the exception of montana, tanks in general are VERY unabalanced, and that includes those that are “tanky”, but not necessarily tanks.

I think like someone said above, boldur needs some cooldown rework for starters. It takes a while for boldur’s damage to become an issue, but with a tank it should never become an issue. Beyond that, and most importantly, think about how easily montana is countered. There are so many ways to keep him in line. It requires coordination from his team to really push with montana. Boldur is so far from montana. Having to hard cc someone 8x to kill him is way too much, when I can solo kill a montana with freaking whiskey foxtrot, but not with his team doing their jobs. Boldur is entirely different. I think a major cooldown reduction would be a great start. I think they also need to just flat out drastically slow him down.

I think that kelvin’s stun needs a major rework. It is far too easy to use with far too great of a payoff. Again, compare him to montana. Montana has to make very wise decisions about going in, and Montana is ALWAYS at risk due to his size and speed. Kelvin just hits a button and stuns the whole team while being able to safely return to his team. I think cooldown and actual time the skill is active need to be changed. I think it should be changed from a stun to a severe slow as well. Perhaps something like miko’s late game slow, but not right away. He actually needs reworked rather than tweaked.

I think galilea is probably the second character most in need of a rework, only to beatrix which i will address in a moment. Galilea needs to have her stun removed. That’s right, I said it. If she is a territorial brawler, and has a pull, has a silence, I guess that all kind of fits into the description. Those things need to change in some way, but the stun needs to go. And this is from someone who plays her very frequently. It does not fit into her kit or her role. Being stunned, then pulled and silenced by one character is far too much. Remove the stun.

Beatrix needs to either be removed from the game, or have the silence removed from her helix altogether. There is no way to rework that silence to be balanced if it remains something that can be done from across the map, which that skill will always be able to do. The only possible solution is to make it single target only.

Melka needs to be brought back to where she was before any of the nerfs. She was strong, she was fine. They have slowly been killing of characters that could remotely handle tanks, one by one. She was actually one of the closest things to an actual counter to boldur. The only actual counter to boldur the game has ever had was ghault’s old trap, into an alani bubble, into a gali pull, into a gali stun. Then you might kill him.

El dragon needs his time back on his stun and his survivability back. I think the change in the size of his ult is fine, but the rest was overkill.

I’ve given orendi a lot of thought, and I simply do not think you can nerf her until you have nerfed everyone else that needs it. She is basically the only thing that gives a team hope other than just strong tank play, and that is getting really boring. Tanks have to change.

1 Like

I disagree with pretty much all of this, you’d essentially be changing him from a late-game carry into an early-game crowd controller. Whiskey is a great utility, he does have decent wave clear with his skills and should be clearing waves early to level up quickly as his primary role is his late-game crowd control and DPS. He’s also, as you (sort of) mentioned, a tank killer, he has better survivability than Thorn and Marquis and huge burst damage potential with his ult, plus he can spam his skills to slow and debuff enemies before unloading it. Thorn and Marquis hit hard in their own right, but their shots and skills are heavy and best used against squishy targets whereas Whiskey can sustain high damage against tanks for longer periods.

2 Likes

Thanks for the response! I realized/realize that balance suggestion threads can be exchanges and kind of “no right answer” alot of times. We all realize Beatrix and Orendi and boldur all need nerfs. Outside of those, buffing characters other than el dragon is a bit of a debatable “non perfect” topic since IMO the game is pretty balanced on the “UP” side of things.

For your points

I don’t view him as a “late game carry”. Boldur and Orendi are late game carries. WFT is not a late game carry.

As for the “early game controller part” - I feel like it would give him better utility in the early game yes - but just giving him a better option from being rushed down plus potentially 1 extra swiss cheese is hardly what I would call an “early game controller”.

He is a tank killer. That’s his niche. He’s a counterplay and only a counter play.

I don’t think a good wft has better survivability than a good thorn at all at all.

He does have good burst with his ult - I mention it twice. :slight_smile:

Whiskey’s helix choices are fine as is. Only thing that needs a change is the lv8 helix. At this point in the game, characters are getting their game changing helixes…His level 8 is straight garbo, and I skip it 100% of the time.

Level 8 should be something like grant him either +6/+10 rounds to the Mag depending on if you took the 4 round burst at level 7. Would give him a perfect 10 bursts, instead of that super awkward 2 rounds at the end. The other option could be reduce all skills by either 1 sec when he kills a minion or by 5 seconds when he kills a major enemy.

2 Likes

I think the cool down on mikes frag should be knocked down a few seconds, and his clip increased from 30 to 40. Would help put him in a better place

2 Likes

I’m working on a reply for this, but it’ll take a while since I like to be at least somewhat thorough. It’s getting quite long and I’m not going to finish it today. But it is coming! :thumbsup:

3 Likes

Can’t wait

I’m afraid you’ll have to :sweat_smile:

Whiskeys damage amp on Swiss cheese only applies to his own rifle damage. It doesn’t do teammates any good. He can’t support by spreading damage amp.

pfff

1 Like