Characters That Need To Be Brought Up A Notch

I play private matches with a draft almost every night. Some characters are never picked. This is a list of characters that IMO needs buffs or tweaks. This is based on not many people playing these characters when a draft is in place.

Attikus- I have never played a competitive game with Attikus on either team. I actually love Attikus late game with his life steal, ult, etc. He needs some love though.

Whiskey Foxtrot- I think I’ve played one game with WF being picked. I have fun with WF, but I don’t think he is up to par with other gun/ranged characters. There are so many better options.

Caldarius- Caldarius is seldom picked up. I think he has a lot to offer, but gets out classed by Melka in pretty much every aspect, minus Cal’s ult. If Melka ever gets nerfed I think Cal would be in a good spot, but if not he needs a tiny touch of something to compete with her.

S&A- S&A is in a weird spot. Not tanky enough to be your main front line, not assassin enough to be your main CC/ganker. I don’t think S&A needs any buffs per say, but I think they could tweak her a little so she would fit in a role better. Make her more tanky, or make her do more damage, etc. Even if she is untouched, she’d still be good, but there are better characters out there for both the rolls she plays.

Deande- Deande never gets picked. I am master of Deande and actually love her playstyle, but most teams would rather another assassin/disruptor than Deande. Her uppercut is great and her ult can lead to team wipes if combo-ed with other team mates skills. Not sure what Deande needs but I think it’s something. Most teams would rather other characters than Deande in the role she fills.

Toby- Toby is in a tough spot as Marquis and Thorn are god tier in most comps. Thorn can shoot straight through the shield and Marquis can take it down very quickly. I don’t think this is the case of Toby being underpowered, but more so the other snipers being overpowered to a degree. In the current state of the game buffing Tobys ult might lead to him being picked up more, but teams will always want Marquis/Thorn first. They are just too game changing.

Again, this is based on playing private matches with a draft in Incursion. These characters are among the last picked or never picked. I made a post about the most banned/first picked characters and I just thought I’d make one on the opposite end of the spectrum as well.

That Shayne & Aurox point is completely off the mark and entirely missing the point of how there are characters in the game who can pick up the role for two when needed, as off-positions, not as mains. ISIC can also do this. Or, well, more accurately he could before that crazy nerf.

Why is it bad that characters aren’t all in static, hard defined roles? It seems to me to be simplistic thinking and it would reduce the overall complexities of the meta.

The only thing they really need to do to perfect the character, I think, is really buff the damage of fetch. It was originally higher, but this balance team doesn’t know what they’re doing with their characters half the time. Which is why the upcoming patch worries me so much.

It’s fascinating that me that people who understand balancing are so hard to find. I’m not one of those people either as I’d never have the confidence for it, but I’ve seen a few games at least have sublime balancing. I do wonder if it’s people with dominant charisma being put in charge of things rather than those who are, you know, good at math.

And likewise, I’m sorry, but I don’t find this post all that impressive as a solution, either. The Shayne & Aurox point was the tip of the iceberg, otherwise I would’ve just ignored it.


Just like the last post, I am just relaying information on a pattern. The explanations are more/less my guesses as to why they aren’t being picked; as I can only speak for myself not every other team I’ve played against, etc.

Edit: I understand there are characters that can perform multiple rolls, but the fact remains that S&A hardly gets picked. Which tells me teams think there are better options out there in those rolls for their team comp.

What 2 roles does S&A fill then? Characters should have defined roles as it helps people pick a character during team select to get a well rounded team of characters. What would be the point of even choosing between characters if they didn’t have different abilities that cause them to best fill a certain role in a team?

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i think you forgot phoebe. and before anyone jumps on my case, trust me, i can play phoebe and would be more than happy to post a screenshot of mind boggling personal statistics with her. much like the OP, i am not referring to what people, including myself, are able to pull off in pubs or the old competitive queue. i am referring to high level incursion play.

melee in general is in a weird spot in incursion. phoebe has a 6 second slow, but a blight lasts for 6 seconds and can be spammed and done so from across the map. montana can slow for a very long time with one shot followed by countless more shots, all from across the map, while being able to absorb probably 4x as much damage, while dishing out almost 75 pct as much as an assassin. el dragon is very strong and the only viable melee in high level incursion. rath is even more viable than phoebe because of his huge aoe silence followed by the easy button of all easy buttons, but even he is feast or famine.

the answer to make phoebe even remotely be able to compete at high levels is to bring back the stun. keep the window to land the combo small, but it needs to come back. currently galilea has everything phoebe has, had, and probably ever will have, and she has a shield and does double the damage.

phoebe was nerfed at a time when only the vanilla characters were available. rath was weaker, there was no el dragon, no galilea, no alani, no ghault, etc. They should have never nerfed her knowing that those characters were incoming

Yeah I forgot to put Phoebe. Only team I’ve see run her is ours. That slow is pretty brutal but her teleports get canceled way too easily.

Caldarius is great as is. His killing potential is fantastic and his escapibility is unmatched any buffs to him would make him op

It’s already confirmed he is at least getting a wound.

Yeah I think he is very capable, but mellka trumps him in every aspect.

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IMO he is outclassed by melka and Benedict

Caldy and Whiskey are both fine. Caldy can actually be incredibly powerful as a fifth pick character in Compet.

S&A does need a bit of help. She currently falls off so hard after level 3 its kind of a joke. Her one cc makes the hook look like it always lands. Half her mutation are broke because the coding with her fetch and one is straight stupid. She has a really niffty way of being tanky compared to straight DR but she is the definition of “can leave alone and not focus”. Also her ulti is terrible unless lvl 10 and it doesn’t even matter when she is.

Caldarius on PC is a beast. On console he’s still good but the problem is he’s harder to control on a game controller than he is on a mouse and Keyboard.

I am horrified to think of a caldy buff. Maybe it’s because I’m a master of him, and also have Mel to 12. He’s the better of the two, in my humble opinion. He has better accuracy, shorter range (damage scaling with proximity), and a much better melee.
Whiskey definitely.

SA I mean… I can see it. But at the same time, I’ve been rocking her lately and with her legendary, she be a beast.

Deande, more tweak than buff.

Toby does not need a buff exactly, I think his shield just needs some ideas. Raise the hp, but make it vulnerable to electric damage like… Every other shield in the game? His mid/close range is mediocre without his legendary.

I understand your view, and can see why you think that. Like Atty. Dear god when he gets a buff and I can go big red semem demon, I’ll be stoked. But some of them would just be horrifying…

Funnily enough you see a lot more of these characters in meltdown matches particularly Toby and Attikus guess that’s part of the difficulty in balancing since both incursion and meltdown can be played at competitive level (although there is no competitive scene yet haha)

It would be interesting to see your opinions on character balance looking at the meltdown mode as the focus.

Also, I’m surprised Ambra is not on this list although a re-work has already been mentioned so perhaps that is why haha.

Interesting opinion here though :slight_smile:

i’m seeing more deande now then i ever have. :mask: exploding twins galore

Usually Miko and Alani are banned and Ambra and Reyna are the go-to supports. They are like first or second pick most of the time.

I think that you’re completely wrong about S&A. I play many Private Matches too and am constantly seeing Shayne picked. Toby is also arguably one of my least favorite battleborn to play with when combined with a Kleese although obviously when playing against a sniper they’re going to have a very rough day. Caldarius can also be great at times, but I have never seen a WF, Attikus or Deande actually really contribute.

Again, just relaying my experience. IF s&a is picked it’s usually last. S&A is picked more often than the other names on there, but still seldom picked.

You’re basing this solely on private Incursion matches? When you’re that exclusionary, I’m not sure what the point of this thread even is. I’ll just see myself out.

The point of this thread is to analyze a pattern when a draft is in place. Over 20+ private matches these characters are usually not picked or picked last. S&A/Cal are picked more than the others, but still hardly ever. I think it’s a pattern worth bringing up.

It’s more for just discussion I guess, as most of these characters will probably be getting buffs when the update comes out, but I made a thread about characters that need to be brought down a notch and so I figured I do the opposite end of the spectrum.