Cloak system redesign (and more)

Homeworld Remastered Collection Remastered Discussion
#1

I saw a post the other day about how the cloaked fighters being bad. I seldom use them, but when I have used them, I have always been annoyed at how short the cloak field lasts. Now this got me thinking about how short-med the cloak field lasts for all ships with cloak (cap ships w/ modulus included). Anyway I was wondering, what if the rate of consumption of the cloak was proportional to the size of the field generated. What I’m thinking is that when you cloak a ship it brings up a interface similar to the interface for issuing movement and the cloak would extend a distance that you choose. clicking on the ship extending the cloak would initiate a self cloak on that ship while clicking on a different ship would extend the field just far enough to encompass that second ship. there would still be a max range however. Similar to this, using two ships with cloaking capacity could decrease the rate of consumption and/or increase the max range of the cloak field. the way i see this working is much in the same way as issuing a moment command to two or more ships. the center of the movement disk is equidistant to all selected ships, or in this case, the center of the cloak is equidistant to all selected ships. Hopefully the end result of this would be increased cloak times for ships using only a self cloak and will add a new dynamic to using cloaks on a fleet scale. Additionally this system could also be used with grav-well generators and shield/defense field frigates. Imagine using three gravity well generators to extend the max well range and create a massive no fly zone, or the same number of defense field frigates to create a fleet sized shield, or run three times longer.

Just a thought I had. I wouldn’t mind hearing feedback.
(sorry for the blocky format)

#2

What sort of effect would this have on your recharge time between bouts of cloaking ?

Also this would make the cloak considerable more potent, so what kind of cost increase/handicap were you thinking of including to help keep things in balance ?

#3

I wouldn’t say that the cloak would be strictly better, just more versatile. Definitely having a long lasting self cloak on a production ship could be a very broken last stand in end game; especially coupled with hyperspace. I’ve always thought that the cloak system and grav system ships have always been highly attuned complex machines and so even minor damage would cause major disruption or all out failure of the system (maybe complete loss of charge). to work properly maybe the ship or its subsystem need to have higher than 80% or 90% health to function. Being forced out of hyperspace could damage all subsystems as well as the hull of the ship. Alternatively, you could buff the proximity sensor or give other units similar abilities. scouts and maybe cap ships with sensor modules could gain the ability to ping for cloaked vessels through research. It’s hard to tell how it would really change gameplay without actually trying. How would you use it, or how would you change it to maintain balance?

#4

cloaked fighters should not have time limits!

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#5

Normally I would agree with something like this, as it was a move away from the original mechanic. However as the cloaked fighters old limiting factor of Fuel has also been removed it did require something done to stop it becoming a bit of a no brainer in terms of unit selection (other than adding fuel back in that is :slight_smile: ) . Whether the rate at which it runs out is appropriate is another matter altogether and still up for discussion I think.

Also in the campaign it was a fairly late entry ( level 12 I think) at which point the game had shifted to a more Big ship battle scale anyway probably making this more the concern of the multiplayer crowd in this instance.

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#6

Fuel was never a problem for me at Bridge of Sighs but a time limet is.
That is if the stupid thing even worked!!

#7

If the cloaked fighter had no limit or energy bar i think people would abuse it in combat constantly toggling it on and off so the enemy cant get a lock. I think it should be able to remain cloaked longer than other ships with cloaking ability and to suit it more for hit and run fighting, maybe it should have a much faster recharge than other ships. But again, not fast enough that it could be abused in combat.

#8

I used the cloaked fighters for spying both in campain and agenst CPU, as well as for surprise atack.

#9

I think the timer should be around 10min and they are only visible while firing.
Long enough to remain cloaked during a fight or for a sneak attack, but not long enough to be a “permanent” hiding mechanism which I think would be OP.

#10

I agree. that would be a reasonable buff within the current game mechanics to make the cloaked fighter what it should be. I cannot remember the stats for the cloaked fighter atm, but as I recall, it is very lacking in armament compared to the standard interceptor. I would propose that the firepower be buffed to equal or slightly greater than the standard interceptor and that it get a significant nerf to armor and health to emphasize its intended hit and run tactics.

#11

First, it needs to actually work.
I use them (used to) for recon. Fuel was moot because I didn’t move them much, and the fuel time they had was adequate to cross a map twice. The cloak time limit is completely bogus for this little ship and the role it’s supposed to play. These things are fragile and don’t have much hit. They also take a long time to build so they’re not going to be a main fighting ship. Even with infinite cloak they can be reduced to rubbish pretty quickly if used offensively.

So, fuel burn was a minor inconvenience. Cloak time is completely out of line, making this ship completely worthless. I would agree that a cloaking time of 10 minutes would be an acceptable compromise.

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#12

The only roles I use the cloak fighter for are recon and hit and run attacks on recourse ships. As it is, i find small guns have an almost negligible effect on recourse ships and the short cloak time is inadequate for a recon role. maybe if the armament was changed or buffed. The only problem is that doing so might turn the cloaked fighter into a cloaked bomber. tbh, I wouldn’t mind if in multiplayer they did indeed add a bomber variant

#13

A Scout has slightly more fire power and slightly better armer than a Cloaked Fighter.
I really think recon is its best and intended use although, I do admit to using them to take out the Cloak Generator in Bridge of Sighs.

#14

It would seem that we are all in agreement about the cloaked fighter to some degree, but I must ask about thoughts tward a complete redesign of the system (and similar systems)

#15

In what way?

#16

Either a “I like your Idea because it adds to gameplay in this way” a “I don’t like your idea because it’s unbalanced in this way, could easily be abuse, or completely breaks the game” or just a new idea that would add further depth to the cloak, grav-well, shield systems already in place.

something like one of those^ is what I was hoping for i guess…

#17

Sounds like modding really…

#18

True enough, and I have thought about inquiring in the modding section of the forums. I suppose i was also wondering whether or not gearbox was going to do anything to add to the homeworld multiplayer mechanics themselves (balance issues aside)

Frankly MP and skirmishes seem boring and repetitive with the current HW2 balance and systems

(also I have no real modding experience)

#19

I still believe The cloaked fighter should have unlimited cloak time because, cloaking is its only real defense and its only real asset. Yes, sum players will abuse it but there are safe guards agenst it. Easy ones.

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#20

Agreed. Unlimited cloak is not too much. This ship is easily dispatched if used for offense.

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