#61

Gameplay that was glorified by few for a game that was abandoned after few months of development. It could be this way if it was for hw2 alone. Let’s take into consideration numbers. Bc with current stats is unbelievable. There are no ways of countering it with full support than getting your own.

1 bc can last approximately 50sec vs 21 frigs but their dps is eventually lowered and for their cost it is not worth. 21x 800 is approximately 16000. For it you can get 3 bc and upgrades.

By combining the 2 games both sides need to sacrifice something to be able to live together. 200k hp even with 3k dps is an overkill already so we need to undergo revolution not minor changes. Think out of the box. Make them even faster than ions but with low armor and dps as stated before.

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#62

thats exactly what it is. they are firing at a point in space that have no ship around around it. for example the kush research ship, instead of firing at the hull of the research ship. they shoot out past the antenna in the front, and like 95% of the shots miss because they dont hit anything physical… hw1 destroyers and some frigs have the same issue. if you come in form the top, bottom or sides. you will fire just in-front of the ion guns barrels on the tia destroyer, or the antenna of the jush and miss completely.
how can you help? please teach me how to fix this, im begging you! its driving my OCD absolutely mad,
not to mention slaughtering any kinda game-play that could have taken place, had this not been an issue.

i can provide a team speak if needed.

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#63

In the ships in question, you’ll find something like this (taken from kus_destroyer.ship)

NewShipType.useTargetRandom=1
NewShipType.targetRandomPointXMin=-0.33
NewShipType.targetRandomPointXMax=0.33
NewShipType.targetRandomPointYMin=-0.3
NewShipType.targetRandomPointYMax=0.33
NewShipType.targetRandomPointZMin=-0.45
NewShipType.targetRandomPointZMax=0.6

these values define a subset of the ship’s bounding box that is used for targeting. For reference, in HW2 Y is up-down, Z is front-back, and X is the sides. So if shots are flying past the nose alot, a way to fix that is to reduce the ZMax value.

Edit: In case it wasn’t clear, the values here are from 1 to 0, or -1 to 0 in the case of the mins. 1 puts that edge of the target box to be equal to that edge of the model’s bounding box, 0 puts it at the center of the model.

The issue with the heal beam seems fixable too, does just reducing the refire time and duration on the beam not help? firing it’s pew pew gun is a bit trickier, I suppose, I haven’t dug into the code for that one

1 Like
#64

i fixed their beam in mine, i just cant get the main gun to stop shooting. thanks ill give this a try. hopefully i can get it fixed.

edit: i had no idea this was here. its working MUCH better now. and hw1 isnt as OP/broken (take ur pick) now that weapons are hitting the freaking target…
thank you so much.

#65

I definitely don’t want to see HW2 lose research. It’s key to the playstyle of those races. Adjust and balance is what I say, over removing/adding, I think.

@178thbattlegroup
My internet is still borked but I seem to get long-periods of stability during the early hours of my mornings. Hopefully I can get on then and play again! :smiley:

#66

So how would you propose changes to balance both games without removing hp research for hw2 and adding for hw1? This is not a troll post, neither a sarcasm :slight_smile:

#67

i noticed the Platforum icons from the units and in the build on vgr plats, are backwards. how do i change the icons? and where is the icon art/TGAs stored??

#68

@178thBattleGroup remember to tag people for questions like that, such as @BitVenom.

@rapnyt
By adjusting the numbers of the base stats and the upgrade-changes alike. Although, to answer you version of that question, do you consider a HC being able to take on a BC to a tie at any point of the game… Balance?

#69

Yes. This is just a game, and their ships names do not resemble any naval ship classes. If you want a bc to be far better vs hc then this game is meaningless. Then you will just want a hw1 to be a rushing race and hw2 for defensive until they get bcs. Adjusting the numbers will be almost impossible in this case imho…

#70

I don’t know about that. Have you actually played a a full match with players with the community patch enabled? (Of course I mean the units, not the actual classifications.)

#71

Just thought I’d mention that I got around to a few skirmish games today with the patch, and things feel pretty tight. Missile destroyer missiles still get in ugly spirals though :crying_cat_face:

1 Like
#72

To try and balance HW vs HW2 units on a ship to ship bases is both a fools errand and counter productive to both races. An HC should lose 1 vs 1 to a BC. Period.

It’s the MO of HW2 units to be effective on their own with elementary support from other unit types. The MO of HW is to construct complex fleet compositions that work together as a battle group. Until this is understood and approached with that philosophy, you people are arguing in circles.

Balance needs to come from that understanding.

Let’s take the HC vs BC face off as an example. What is a possible BC build? Upgraded armor, self repair capable, hanger space, jump protection, augmented support fire power, close in suppression weapons, high damage output main weapon. All of this could be built externally or countered externally with the correct HC battle group.

HC with 2 support frigates (negates armor, adds hangerish fighter docking), gravwell (jump protection/fighter suppression), DFG (extend local area armor to counter FTC damage), assault frigates (close support),

You will never get a full one to one match, but it’s asymmetric and should play as such. Any difficulty of management argument is squashed with “chose your race, chose your fate”. The goal and skill of the HW2 player must be the most effective way to tear down a battle fleet while tanking the attack. The goal and skill of the HW fleet is to maintain the fleet while doing damage over time.

In order for this to play out, the game has to be fixed, then balanced accordingly. The narrow minded view of my games way imposed on your games way is only going to produce a pretty piece of sh*t that no one wants to play. Keep your upgrades and keep them the hell away from me. Back off my support frigates, they are mine not yours.

6 Likes
#73

Precisely what was said above. We could do the easy thing and mirror the races, but that would completely remove the assymetry, and this game craves for an asymmetrical balance that is still fair and filled with equality.

1 Like
#74

I think there is one thing that needs to be done soon to equalize the HC v BC and destie v destie fights. Either remove the ability of the HW2 ships to continue to fire as they blow up OR add the same function to the HW1 races. It is patently unbalanced to have 2 races continue to fight as they blow up and have 2 others stop as soon as they reach 0 HP.

(IMHO) That right there will fix a LOT of the balance issues between the HW1 and 2 races in big ship fights.

1 Like
#75

Aha, something I remebered from my playtesting. It seems like motherships might be too tough now? I seem to need a rather large fleet to whittle down a mothership in any reasonable time, my memory is that in either HW1 or 2 a single destroyer or a couple destroyers and a cruiser could get the job done a lot sooner than I was seeing today. Could be memory playing tricks on me, though

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#76

@EatThePath youre right, it does take longer. MS in hw2 have MUCH more HP than they did in hw1, couple that with the fact that people are use to playing HW2 units with INSANEO damage output, and it will feel very different. i could adjust that ABIT, but honestly i like it the way it is now. people were constantly asking for a MS that could defend it self. i dont really like the idea of sticking guns on it, because then it becomes a front line unit. so dropping the DMG but leaving the HP and making it a tank helps it out abit. + even in HW1 it use to take awhile and abit of a whaling even with 3 HC to take out a MS.

ion frigs work wonders on bombarding bigger ships. i REALLY need to know how to change the unit icons, because the gun and missile plats icons are swapped both in build and selected units… and it drives me nuts. do you know how to do this?

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#77

\ship\icons\shipicons.lua has a table associating every ship with coordinates on a texture file, swapping the coordinates of those two entries should do the trick.

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#78

they did, thank you.

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#79

This is a good idea really with one major flaw. By concentrating on additional ships for hw1 races hw2 can easily destroy those ships with little firepower while you cannot destroy bcs docking capabilities or killing fct is much more difficult. Not to mention that healing factor would determine that if you want to have 3bcs you need to obtain 6 support frigates for instance. That is 2k less firepower compared with hw2 which can be to easily destroyed.

1 Like
#80

…Can you explain this a bit more concisely? I can’t quite grasp what you’re trying to say. (No offense.)