Complete Splash Damage Guide

Sweet! Glad I helped make this excellent resource a bit better, even if it was in a sorta roundabout kinda wrong but it is easier for the average dummy (like me) to understand way.

As an aside, did the community patch mess with any of this? I’ve been doing my yearly run at Hat Fortress (TF2…I has nice hats), so I’ve only read about the patch.

It changed some splash values like the Twister or Hornet which both have +100% in the patch, but it didn’t do anything dramatic like changing a weapons splash type entirely (I think that would also be extremely difficult to do).

A great read and very informative, in particular Zero’s skills + the video’s are a great addition.

Bookmarked. Thanks @DemoniteBL :thumbsup:

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Here’s an immolate impact damage test. It doesn’t seem complicated at all ! just the same as the other splash damage types.

gun’s level scaled base damage 289.92
BAR gun damage ~ 12.2 %
bar grenade damage ~ 12.2 %
accelerate 3% gun damage
~16.1 % (smg) gun damage relic

calculation: immolate 4/5 40% ; THVM fire versus flesh 1.75

        328   113553.172 Max     60860.398 Cur    61240.984 Prev      380.586 Damage // bullet impact damage 
          0   113553.172 Max     60593.988 Cur    60860.398 Prev      266.410 Damage // immolate impact

289.92 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 + 0.161) = 380.664
289.92 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 + 0.161) * 0.4 * 1.75 = 266.465 // behaves similar to other splash types (explosive / maliwan) but grenade damage does NOT apply ; but then again grenade damage doesn’t apply to all maliwan splashes either

Since is calculated out of weapon impact damage it will add the most to non elemental weapon.
I will edit in a test with an elemental weapon as well for completeness sake.

EDIT :

a test with immolate and torgue splash … They are calculated similarly as % of the impact damage.

lvl scaled weapon base damage 1164.089

BAR gun damage ~ 12.2 %
bar grenade damage ~ 12.2 %
accelerate 3% gun damage

calculation: immolate 4/5 40% ; THVM fire versus flesh 1.75 ; explosive * 1 vs flesh

		422    42582.438 Max     12044.580 Cur    13385.287 Prev     1340.707 Damage // gun impact damage explosive
          0    42582.438 Max     11106.086 Cur    12044.580 Prev      938.494 Damage // immolate splash damage
         16    42582.438 Max      9602.186 Cur    11106.086 Prev     1503.900 Damage // explosive splash damage 

1164.089 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 ) * 1 = 1341.03
1164.089 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 ) * 0.4 * 1.75 = 938.721
1164.089 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 ) * 1 * ( 1 + 0.122) * 1 = 1504.636 // grenade damage applies

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actually it is a bit more complicated then I originally thought ! Unlike the other splashes immolate DOES consider the bullet’s impact vs slagged and vs target type (element matching) TWICE.

no slag test first … was afraid the target didn’t have enough HP
used a binary aegis maliwan fire pistol (has built in fire splash)

5/5 immolate
level scaled pistol base damage 1137.4198
~12.2 % BAR GUN DAMAGE
~12.2 % BAR GRENADE DAMAGE

       4219    47531.672 Max     45298.902 Cur    47531.672 Prev     2232.770 Damage // bullet 1 impact
          0    47531.672 Max     43345.227 Cur    45298.902 Prev     1953.676 Damage // IMMOLATE impact
         15    47531.672 Max     41341.590 Cur    43345.227 Prev     2003.637 Damage // maliwan 80% splash
          0    47531.672 Max     39108.820 Cur    41341.590 Prev     2232.770 Damage // bullet 2 impact
         16    47531.672 Max     37155.148 Cur    39108.820 Prev     1953.672 Damage // 5/5 IMMOLATE impact
          0    47531.672 Max     35151.512 Cur    37155.148 Prev     2003.637 Damage // maliwan 80% splash

1137.4198 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 = 2232.769 // bullet impact vs flesh
(1137.4198 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 ) * 0.5 * 1.75 = 1953.6728 // HOLLY CRAP you guys were right immolate DOES DOUBLE DIP the vs flesh multiplier
1137.4198 * (1 + 0.122) * 0.8 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 = 2004.13 // built in maliwan 80% fire splash (gets grenade damage bonus from BAR)

vs slagged target test
(since I save and exited the quest maliwan pistol switched to inflammatory aegis)
level scaled pistol base damage 1435.026

       2407    41590.801 Max     33005.594 Cur    38639.543 Prev     5633.949 Damage // bullet 1 impact
         15    41590.801 Max     23146.180 Cur    33005.594 Prev     9859.414 Damage // 5/5 immolate impact 
          0    41590.801 Max     18090.398 Cur    23146.180 Prev     5055.781 Damage // maliwan 80% splash
       2219    41590.801 Max     12456.447 Cur    18090.398 Prev     5633.951 Damage // bullet 2 impact
         16    41590.801 Max      2597.033 Cur    12456.447 Prev     9859.414 Damage // 5/5 immolate impact 
          0    41590.801 Max         0.000 Cur     2597.033 Prev     2597.033 Damage // maliwan 80% splash (target lacks enough hitpoints )

1435.026 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 * 2 = 5635.347 // bullet impact
(1435.026 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 * 2 ) * 0.5 * 1.75 * 2 = 9861.857 // immolate 5/5 IT DOES DOUBLE DIP vs slagged and vs target type
1435.026 * (1 + 0.122) * 0.8 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 * 2 = 4930.9287 // 80% maliwan splash; Why is the error so high here ? This number is wrong !

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This thread serves also a great compilation of weapons NEVER TO USE against constructors /Saturn seeing as they have huge splash damage resistance A few findings about constructors and saturn

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Got it, thanks! :wave:

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I tested on the shooting range dummy with no BAR bonus and no relics. The chance of triggering a DoT with a Maliwan shock sniper is close to the info on the weapon card modified by tree skills.

I fired 312 rounds that only did splash damage. Of those, 216 electrocuted the target. My skill, More Pep, “added 20%” (really a multiplier of 1.2) to the weapon’s elemental chance of 52.7%. Thus 52.7% * 1.2 = 63% expected chance.

216 / 312 = 69% experimental chance.

If I shot 1000 rounds, this might return 630 positives.

I then tested a Maliwan fire SMG. It has an elemental chance of 18.8%. More Pep increases that to 20.6%.

I fired 330 rounds that only did splash damage. Of those, 18 burned the target.

18 / 330 = 5.5%

This is abnormally low for a good random number generator! I suspect the splash on fire weapons (or SMGs) has a fraction of the bullet’s chance to trigger a burn DoT. This might be intentional because burn DoTs can apparently stack, while electrocution DoTs don’t appear to stack.

I also tested a shock pistol, firing 100 times. The splash triggered electrocution 23 times, exactly the weapon card’s rate adjusted for More Pep (23%).

My last test was with the Snider again. The chance of a DoT for a direct hit is extremely high with a Maliwan shock sniper. I fired 216 rounds, and 214 of those electrocuted the dummy! This is a greater rate than expected. Failing with both DoT opportunities should be 0.37 * 0.37 = 0.14 or 14%. If this assumption were true, I’d expect to see 20 to 30 failures, not just 2! Maybe there is an unknown bonus added to the splash’s DoT chance when the bullet hits the target.

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  • splash weapons are terrible for testing the chance to apply elemental effect since they add a separate splash hit (extra dice roll) to apply effect. So you’ll have to multiply the probabilities - but keep in mind that if your aim ain’t perfect … spash chance to apply elemental effect isn’t consistent (see bellow)

  • Splash chance to apply elemental effect decreases with distance between the splash impact and the target -it will only reach its max value (same as weapon’s impact chance) when hitting the target dead center …

  • (except extremely rare cases) the chance to apply elemental effect on weapon the card isn’t the actual chance to apply elemental effect rolled by the game when attempting to apply effect can’t be since it depends on some of the target’s parameters such as defense type and level differece : see the chance to apply elemental effect formula.

  • the base chance to apply shock damage vs shields in borderlands 2 is 75% !! . Very easy to reach 100% with some maliwan (manufacturer bonus to increase elemental effect chance) snipers and even more so when boosting via more pep. In fact, NOT getting 100% chance in your test is a bit suspicious … perhaps you didn’t have other elemental chance boosting parts on your test weapon. Or the dummy was higher level than you.

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Ah, there are many more variables in DoT computation than I imagined. My tests were done on PS4 console with ordinary weapons. Clearly the weapon card stats for elemental probability are horribly misleading.

The modifier for distance from target’s center would make testing this stuff difficult. My character is level 44, firing at a level 30 dummy. To get a better comparison, I should create players that are the same level as the dummy.

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At least that part is really easy with the new Boosted characters - that’s exactly where they start!

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I promised you guys a Immolate & Reaper double dipping test

11/5 immolate (110%) vs slagged with 4/5 Reaper (32%)

# Damage Type =          FIRE ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address =   1A8B8C18 
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 142222.01562500  
       5500  2946866.250 Max   2697977.750 Cur  2946866.250 Prev   248888.500 Damage   195885D8 baseaddress      Spitter Skag vsHealthOrArmor       627357375 
# Damage Type =          FIRE ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address =   1A8B8C18 
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 821332.12500000  
         15  2946866.250 Max   1260646.500 Cur  2697977.750 Prev  1437331.250 Damage   195885D8 baseaddress      Spitter Skag vsHealthOrArmor       627357390 
# Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 0.9704 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 0.2559 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.0745  

Calculations/Verification

35914.65234 Normal Hit (base weapon * additives)

// normal hit vs slagged with 4/5 reaper
35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 = 142222.023266

// normal hit vs slagged flesh (fire) Actual Weapon impact damage inflicted (with 4/5 reaper)
35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 * 1.75 = 248888.540716

(35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 * 1.75) * 1.1 * 3 = 821332.184363

// 11/5 immolate with 4/5 reaper fire vs slagged flesh damage inflicted
(35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 * 1.75) * 1.1 * 3 * 1.75 = 1437331.32264

Notice the vs slagged *3 ^ 2 and firevsflesh * 1.75 ^ 2 . Immolate be crazy AND BENEFITS FROM REAPER
weapon impact damage * 1.1 * 3 * 1.75 = weapon impact damage * 5.775 !!!

Edit: this would be even crazier with a fire bone :slight_smile:

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agree, killed terra and hype with a clip of the sandhawk with it.

Yeah well, we see a lot of that around here.

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“// 11/5 immolate with 4/5 reaper fire vs slagged flesh damage inflicted
(35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 * 1.75) * 1.1 * 3 * 1.75 = 1437331.32264”

Huh? If Immolate (at 11/5 skill points) grants +110% damage, where is the 2.1 multiplier? I see a 1.1 multiplier, but that is only a 10% bonus…

2.1 * 2.75 = 5.77

That 2.75 looks like fire vs flesh plus one (1.75 + 1).

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immolate is not THAT good. Is ‘just’ *1.1 (110%) at 11/5.

look at the other splash damage tests/calculations … 50% splash is a 0.5 multiplier on the splash damage calculation, 80% *0.8 … so 110% *1.1

The damage type vs defense type multipliers work the same way 175% fire vs health *1.75 ; non elemental vs armor * 0.8 , 175% corrosive vs armor *1.75, etc … Would be too ridiculous otherwise

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11 skill points for a 10% bonus?!

No. Doesn’t make sense to me. That’s crazy. Reaper at 4/5 grants a bonus of 32% or a multiple of 1.32. You use that number above. Why isn’t Reaper 0.32? Immolate at 11/5 should grant a bonus of 110% or a multiple of 2.1, right?

How would we know if 5.77 = 2.1 * 2.75 or 1.1 * 1.75 * 3? You assume slag and fire-on-flesh. But who knows? Maybe Immolate doesn’t double dip slag! Maybe it is 2.1 * (1+ ElementMultiple thus 2.5 in NVHM and 2.75 in UVHM).

We would need a debugger to see the values in the floating point register.

Or test 1/5 in Immolate (10% bonus)…

0.1 * 1.75 * 3 = 0.525 // the skill is a penalty
1.1 * 2.75 = 3.03 // triple damage vs flesh

And perhaps…
1.1 * 1.4 = 1.54 // vs shield or armor (1 + 0.4)

1 POINT for 10% * 0.1 multiplier
11 points for 110% *1.1 multiplier

# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 821332.12500000  
         15  2946866.250 Max   1260646.500 Cur  2697977.750 Prev  1437331.250 Damage   195885D8 baseaddress      Spitter Skag vsHealthOrArmor

you can see there in the combat log snippet *1.75 is applied right at the end of the damage calculation chain…
Intermediary Damage Value 821332.125
and then bellow INFLICTED (immolate) 1437331.250 Damage (1437331.25 = 821332.125 * 1.75 )


The multiplier is 1.1 because immolate is bonus splash damage. Even if your weapon is non-elemental or corrosive, immolate will still register as additional fire damage to your base damage (which will be in whatever element your gun is). If you are using a non-elemental weapon, immolate will register as a separate damage number.

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this happens regardless of the damage type of the weapon. The in-game damage pop up might aggregate the number if the weapon’s damage type is fire, but that is just player feedback … The damage applications are always separate …