I need to know: does the splash damage from weapons [let’s say, the Hail or the Rubi] have it’s own chance to trigger DoT? Like, the Rubi has around 15% chance to proc DoT: does only the bullet have this chance, and the splash is not involved with DoT? Or is it 15% for the bullet and another separate 15% for the splash?
Yup, splash damage can proc DoTs or slag. I’m not sure if the % chance is the same as the bullet’s chance or if it’s based around it’s splash damage value (would be really annoying to test that) but I assume it’s the same. I’ll add that to the guide, thanks for reminding me.
Thank you, its good to know that hunting Maliwan gear for my Maya was not in vain. I’m building her around DoT damage and so far so good, I shoot each enemy 2 or 3 times and move on to the next, letting DoT do its work.
Dunno if it will still be viable in UVHM, but worked like a charm in normal and is still decent in TVHM.
Much less so (as it should be at that level), but the Infection and Good Touch are quite capable of it well into the OP levels for low- to mid-level enemies if you really build around it (eliminate shields, match elements, apply slag, buff it with COMs, relics, and/or skills). Other weapons are as well, but it’s much less “fire and forget” with them.
I learned a lot from reading guides and threads about splash damage, but I’m still not sure about how it works with amp shields.
First just to be sure, AFAIK amp damage is added to the bullet when it is fired, not when it hits a target, right?
Let’s use the omen as an example in the case we’re using the bee.
It has 9 pellets per shot, and 100% splash. Each pellet damage is calculated using amp damage divided by 9. Is each splash damage calculated with amp damage divided by 9 or with full amp damage?
If the former is true, do you need to have the bee shield fully charged when the splash procs?
Not sure if what I’m asking is clear enough, apologizes for my rather bad english
Thank you for your attention, cheers.
Yeah, Amp is added when the weapon is fired. Just like with the projectiles the splash gets divided by the amount of projectiles that are listed on the weapon card. So if you hit with all of the Omen’s pellets you end up getting the Amp damage twice. And, as I said above, since the Amp is added when you fire the weapon the shield needs to be charged at the moment you fire it in order for the splash to receive it. If you fire your weapon while your shield is down and it gets back up before your shot hits anything you still won’t receive the Amp damage.
@KingGed I did actually change it to what you said now, because after doing some testings with the Logan’s Gun and Amp shields I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s more understandable this way. Bascially Amp shields will provide 70% Amp damage on the unlisted projectile’s splash, so it should say +70%. The Logan’s Gun is even weirder, but I explained everything for both guns.
Sweet! Glad I helped make this excellent resource a bit better, even if it was in a sorta roundabout kinda wrong but it is easier for the average dummy (like me) to understand way.
As an aside, did the community patch mess with any of this? I’ve been doing my yearly run at Hat Fortress (TF2…I has nice hats), so I’ve only read about the patch.
It changed some splash values like the Twister or Hornet which both have +100% in the patch, but it didn’t do anything dramatic like changing a weapons splash type entirely (I think that would also be extremely difficult to do).
A great read and very informative, in particular Zero’s skills + the video’s are a great addition.
Bookmarked. Thanks @DemoniteBL
Here’s an immolate impact damage test. It doesn’t seem complicated at all ! just the same as the other splash damage types.
gun’s level scaled base damage 289.92
BAR gun damage ~ 12.2 %
bar grenade damage ~ 12.2 %
accelerate 3% gun damage
~16.1 % (smg) gun damage relic
calculation: immolate 4/5 40% ; THVM fire versus flesh 1.75
328 113553.172 Max 60860.398 Cur 61240.984 Prev 380.586 Damage // bullet impact damage 0 113553.172 Max 60593.988 Cur 60860.398 Prev 266.410 Damage // immolate impact
289.92 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 + 0.161) = 380.664
289.92 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 + 0.161) * 0.4 * 1.75 = 266.465 // behaves similar to other splash types (explosive / maliwan) but grenade damage does NOT apply ; but then again grenade damage doesn’t apply to all maliwan splashes either
Since is calculated out of weapon impact damage it will add the most to non elemental weapon.
I will edit in a test with an elemental weapon as well for completeness sake.
a test with immolate and torgue splash … They are calculated similarly as % of the impact damage.
lvl scaled weapon base damage 1164.089
BAR gun damage ~ 12.2 %
bar grenade damage ~ 12.2 %
accelerate 3% gun damage
calculation: immolate 4/5 40% ; THVM fire versus flesh 1.75 ; explosive * 1 vs flesh
422 42582.438 Max 12044.580 Cur 13385.287 Prev 1340.707 Damage // gun impact damage explosive 0 42582.438 Max 11106.086 Cur 12044.580 Prev 938.494 Damage // immolate splash damage 16 42582.438 Max 9602.186 Cur 11106.086 Prev 1503.900 Damage // explosive splash damage
1164.089 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 ) * 1 = 1341.03
1164.089 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 ) * 0.4 * 1.75 = 938.721
1164.089 * ( 1 + 0.03 + 0.122 ) * 1 * ( 1 + 0.122) * 1 = 1504.636 // grenade damage applies
actually it is a bit more complicated then I originally thought ! Unlike the other splashes immolate DOES consider the bullet’s impact vs slagged and vs target type (element matching) TWICE.
no slag test first … was afraid the target didn’t have enough HP
used a binary aegis maliwan fire pistol (has built in fire splash)
level scaled pistol base damage 1137.4198
~12.2 % BAR GUN DAMAGE
~12.2 % BAR GRENADE DAMAGE
4219 47531.672 Max 45298.902 Cur 47531.672 Prev 2232.770 Damage // bullet 1 impact 0 47531.672 Max 43345.227 Cur 45298.902 Prev 1953.676 Damage // IMMOLATE impact 15 47531.672 Max 41341.590 Cur 43345.227 Prev 2003.637 Damage // maliwan 80% splash 0 47531.672 Max 39108.820 Cur 41341.590 Prev 2232.770 Damage // bullet 2 impact 16 47531.672 Max 37155.148 Cur 39108.820 Prev 1953.672 Damage // 5/5 IMMOLATE impact 0 47531.672 Max 35151.512 Cur 37155.148 Prev 2003.637 Damage // maliwan 80% splash
1137.4198 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 = 2232.769 // bullet impact vs flesh
(1137.4198 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 ) * 0.5 * 1.75 = 1953.6728 // HOLLY CRAP you guys were right immolate DOES DOUBLE DIP the vs flesh multiplier
1137.4198 * (1 + 0.122) * 0.8 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 = 2004.13 // built in maliwan 80% fire splash (gets grenade damage bonus from BAR)
vs slagged target test
(since I save and exited the quest maliwan pistol switched to inflammatory aegis)
level scaled pistol base damage 1435.026
2407 41590.801 Max 33005.594 Cur 38639.543 Prev 5633.949 Damage // bullet 1 impact 15 41590.801 Max 23146.180 Cur 33005.594 Prev 9859.414 Damage // 5/5 immolate impact 0 41590.801 Max 18090.398 Cur 23146.180 Prev 5055.781 Damage // maliwan 80% splash 2219 41590.801 Max 12456.447 Cur 18090.398 Prev 5633.951 Damage // bullet 2 impact 16 41590.801 Max 2597.033 Cur 12456.447 Prev 9859.414 Damage // 5/5 immolate impact 0 41590.801 Max 0.000 Cur 2597.033 Prev 2597.033 Damage // maliwan 80% splash (target lacks enough hitpoints )
1435.026 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 * 2 = 5635.347 // bullet impact
(1435.026 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 * 2 ) * 0.5 * 1.75 * 2 = 9861.857 // immolate 5/5 IT DOES DOUBLE DIP vs slagged and vs target type
1435.026 * (1 + 0.122) * 0.8 * (1 + 0.122) * 1.75 * 2 = 4930.9287 // 80% maliwan splash; Why is the error so high here ? This number is wrong !
This thread serves also a great compilation of weapons NEVER TO USE against constructors /Saturn seeing as they have huge splash damage resistance A few findings about constructors and saturn
Got it, thanks!
I tested on the shooting range dummy with no BAR bonus and no relics. The chance of triggering a DoT with a Maliwan shock sniper is close to the info on the weapon card modified by tree skills.
I fired 312 rounds that only did splash damage. Of those, 216 electrocuted the target. My skill, More Pep, “added 20%” (really a multiplier of 1.2) to the weapon’s elemental chance of 52.7%. Thus 52.7% * 1.2 = 63% expected chance.
216 / 312 = 69% experimental chance.
If I shot 1000 rounds, this might return 630 positives.
I then tested a Maliwan fire SMG. It has an elemental chance of 18.8%. More Pep increases that to 20.6%.
I fired 330 rounds that only did splash damage. Of those, 18 burned the target.
18 / 330 = 5.5%
This is abnormally low for a good random number generator! I suspect the splash on fire weapons (or SMGs) has a fraction of the bullet’s chance to trigger a burn DoT. This might be intentional because burn DoTs can apparently stack, while electrocution DoTs don’t appear to stack.
I also tested a shock pistol, firing 100 times. The splash triggered electrocution 23 times, exactly the weapon card’s rate adjusted for More Pep (23%).
My last test was with the Snider again. The chance of a DoT for a direct hit is extremely high with a Maliwan shock sniper. I fired 216 rounds, and 214 of those electrocuted the dummy! This is a greater rate than expected. Failing with both DoT opportunities should be 0.37 * 0.37 = 0.14 or 14%. If this assumption were true, I’d expect to see 20 to 30 failures, not just 2! Maybe there is an unknown bonus added to the splash’s DoT chance when the bullet hits the target.
splash weapons are terrible for testing the chance to apply elemental effect since they add a separate splash hit (extra dice roll) to apply effect. So you’ll have to multiply the probabilities - but keep in mind that if your aim ain’t perfect … spash chance to apply elemental effect isn’t consistent (see bellow)
Splash chance to apply elemental effect decreases with distance between the splash impact and the target -it will only reach its max value (same as weapon’s impact chance) when hitting the target dead center …
(except extremely rare cases) the chance to apply elemental effect on weapon the card isn’t the actual chance to apply elemental effect rolled by the game when attempting to apply effect can’t be since it depends on some of the target’s parameters such as defense type and level differece : see the chance to apply elemental effect formula.
the base chance to apply shock damage vs shields in borderlands 2 is 75% !! . Very easy to reach 100% with some maliwan (manufacturer bonus to increase elemental effect chance) snipers and even more so when boosting via more pep. In fact, NOT getting 100% chance in your test is a bit suspicious … perhaps you didn’t have other elemental chance boosting parts on your test weapon. Or the dummy was higher level than you.
Ah, there are many more variables in DoT computation than I imagined. My tests were done on PS4 console with ordinary weapons. Clearly the weapon card stats for elemental probability are horribly misleading.
The modifier for distance from target’s center would make testing this stuff difficult. My character is level 44, firing at a level 30 dummy. To get a better comparison, I should create players that are the same level as the dummy.
At least that part is really easy with the new Boosted characters - that’s exactly where they start!
I promised you guys a Immolate & Reaper double dipping test
11/5 immolate (110%) vs slagged with 4/5 Reaper (32%)
# Damage Type = FIRE ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 1A8B8C18 # vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 142222.01562500 5500 2946866.250 Max 2697977.750 Cur 2946866.250 Prev 248888.500 Damage 195885D8 baseaddress Spitter Skag vsHealthOrArmor 627357375 # Damage Type = FIRE ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.14080 ); address = 1A8B8C18 # vsHealthorArmorMul 1.75; Intermediary Damage Value 821332.12500000 15 2946866.250 Max 1260646.500 Cur 2697977.750 Prev 1437331.250 Damage 195885D8 baseaddress Spitter Skag vsHealthOrArmor 627357390 # Chance to trigger effect 1.0000 * 30.0000 * 1.0000 * 0.9704 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 0.2559 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 * 1.0000 = 0.0745
35914.65234 Normal Hit (base weapon * additives)
// normal hit vs slagged with 4/5 reaper
35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 = 142222.023266
// normal hit vs slagged flesh (fire) Actual Weapon impact damage inflicted (with 4/5 reaper)
35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 * 1.75 = 248888.540716
(35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 * 1.75) * 1.1 * 3 = 821332.184363
// 11/5 immolate with 4/5 reaper fire vs slagged flesh damage inflicted
(35914.65234 * 1.32 * 3 * 1.75) * 1.1 * 3 * 1.75 = 1437331.32264
Notice the vs slagged *3 ^ 2 and firevsflesh * 1.75 ^ 2 . Immolate be crazy AND BENEFITS FROM REAPER
weapon impact damage * 1.1 * 3 * 1.75 = weapon impact damage * 5.775 !!!
Edit: this would be even crazier with a fire bone
agree, killed terra and hype with a clip of the sandhawk with it.