Concern about the new arms race items

So… In case you haven’t heard yet: You cannot actually use any of the new Arms Race legendaries until you have extracted them, meaning you cannot use them IN Arms Race at all.

Now, I got two problems with that:

1: There’s no way of telling whether an item is worth picking up and extracting if you can’t actually test it out and have a high chance losing them before you ever get to use it.
2: Several of the new items, especially the two new Artifacts seem like they have been designed specifically for use in Arms Race and would be pretty pointless outside of it.

Can we please just… you know, maybe do away with that limitation. It doesn’t add to the game.


What do you want them to do? Limitations are there for balance for the game mode and that seems to be the ultimate goal of gbx.

That would make sense if the new items could never be used in arms race. They affect the games balance the exact same whether you can use them right away or not. Seems like a silly limitation to me

Yeh, but I don’t see how these items would imbalance the game mode if normal legendaries can be used there, too.

And I’ll say it again, several of these items seem like there’s no way anyone is ever gonna use them outside of Arms Race.


Any examples? Right now I only see that one artifact that revives you once, but that also has damage bonuses attached to it. So while not spectacular, it sounds at least useful. And also, we don’t know how many of those items even work yet. Prematurely judging them does benefit no one.

It could be useful with Moze who routinely blows herself up. With this artifact, she will suddenly get buffs from this taking place.

The one thing I would really like to see is gear extracted from Arms Race going into the vault hunter’s backpack, rather than the Bank. That would make item management soooooooooo much easier.

It goes into the bank, but it can “overfill” the bank if it was full already. So it’s going to be hard to find, but won’t be lost if your bank if full.

Both of the Artifacts have perks related to reviving players, something that becomes a lot more important in a mode where you aren’t allowed to die and don’t have access to any of your skills that would provide you with extra survivability (no lifesteal, no Guardian Angel/Old-U/Lick the Wounds), there’s a grenade that creates a healing field and one of the shields extends your FFYL duration by 50%.
One of the new pistols also revives allies.
These are all items centered around keeping yourself and your team alive more than anything else and since you aren’t allowed to die in Arms Race and don’t have access to your regular skills, this is where those new items would have been the most relevant.

The official reason why they are not allowed in Arms Race is because they are too powerful. It’s the same official reason why Action Skills are not allowed. They are too powerful. It will make Arms Race too easy for players.

As a player the way I interpret those official response is GBX is having difficulty to balance AS and guns in Arms Race without further breaking the current M2.0 system and the main game balance. It might be possible but it will cause unintended ripples to other parts of the game.

As a programmer it’s easier to disable guns and AS than deal with hunting which part of the code base deals with balancing and scaling. As a programmer I will be wary to do more damage than necessary. If we were not able to resolve this in a year, what gives the reason for me to be able to solve this in a month?

Honestly, if they just disabled the guns and left the artifacts and shields, i’d be fine-ish with that. Besides, base game legendaries are pretty darn powerful as well, if you find something like a Lob or Kratakoa or Hellshock you’ve basically won.

It just really bothers me that they keep you from using items that would only be good in a specific environment in that exact environment.

Besides, “They are too powerful” is lazy reasoning.

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I don’t disagree with you on that. Probably they are too ashamed to admit what the real issue is. But yeah that’s lazy reasoning.

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If you take a step back and look at the whole concept of Arms Race, it becomes somewhat evident that you are not supposed to be using legendaries while playing Arms Race. You are supposed to be using the lower rarities. So it makes perfect sense for them to restrict usage of (usable) higher rarity gear while in Arms Race.

The point of Arms Race is to experience the use of crap gear that you normally ignore/sell. The reward for doing so is to extract good gear that you can use elsewhere in the game like you normally do.

Why have legendaries drop from anything other than the boss to begin with, then?
Either restrict all legs or none, anything else is inconsequential.

Is it? I thought the selling point was ALL GUNS MATTER?

Because the mode is not about getting the good loot, its about using the crappy loot. They don’t want to create a situation where everyone rushes the boss immediately, so they create incentives for playing the map by allowing drops of good loot everywhere. Its all about rewarding the player for going through the experience of the mode. Otherwise what you have is a simple boss farm. Arms Race is not designed to be a simple boss farm.

Don’t get me wrong here. I have no interest in the mode at all. It is pretty much opposite of what I consider to be fun in a Borderlands game. But I (believe that I) get the overall concept. And in that context, I can see why they would make certain decisions to restrict the use of higher end gear while playing the mode. It is in line with the whole premise of the mode itself.

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It is. But no gun matters if it is never used. And no one will use lower rarity gear if higher rarity gear is available. That has been proven ad nauseum in the base game. Hence a mode where higher rarity gear is no longer available. It is simply GBX’s solution to the problem. Mind you, I am not saying that it is a great solution, or the only solution (or that I have any interest in the mode). But given what they have created in BL3, I can see it being a viable solution.

Personally, I would rather they spent the time and effort addressing the myriad of outstanding issues voiced elsewhere in these forums.

Make it so you can’t rush the boss that easily then. I mean, you start off with only a grey chest filled with guaranteed white gear, it shouldn’t be too hard to make the boss impossible to beat without something a little better.

Or even make it so the boss fight won’t unlock until you’ve activated some switches on the map or done a minimal amount of activities.

This is not true in Arms Race. You will use lower rarity because you have no choice. And if you got higher rarity, you will drop that lower rarity and use the higher one (assuming higher means better).

True instead of making Arms Race.

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