Cool new gear from Arm's Race

So I have great new gear from the Arm’s Race with nowhere to bother using it. Mayhem 10 and 11, Moze.

Gearbox? Is that it?

They’re fun but so much more powerful than anything in the game…

I guess I could reset and replay, but there won’t be ‘loot’ that’s any better than what I’ve just gotten. This game feels…‘unfinished’.

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It’s not unfinished. The current state of the game is what some in the community asked for, even if they didn’t realize that’s what they were asking for.

Around here the point you’ve raised is really old and repeating :grin:. The latest iteration is below.

In addition to the latest dust-up above I’ll add my $.02 summary below :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

When the game first launched it did feel like it had an endgame. The story content was pretty easy as far as difficulty goes. After the story the end game was the different proving grounds, with Trial of Fervor being the most challenging, and the circle of slaughters, with Slaughter Shaft being the most challenging. This all kinda worked because legendary drop rates were low relative to where they are now – with the exception of the Slaughter Shaft – and on top of that most legendaries weren’t as powerful as they are now. There was also ignorance, in that we hadn’t figured out all the damage formulas and gear/anointment interactions, thus how to min/max wasn’t widely known. These 3 factors acted as a gate on our ability to steamroll the endgame content.

I was going to go on but I’ve decided to cut it short. The bottom line is that the reason the game no longer feels like there is an endgame is because the player is INSANELY powerful relative to the difficulty of the content in the game. To say it another way … the content of the game has been mostly trivialized by our power.


I agreed with you up until:

Are you sure it wasn’t more of GBX ‘ignorance’ on how to balance endgame?

The hotfix list and patch notes are almost as thick as the Bible.

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I’m positive that it wasn’t purely ignorance and there are 2 bits of evidence that makes me so. The first bit is the early set of sandbox changes. They were mostly nerfs and bug fixes, but if you look at the recent slate (i.e., last 6 months) of patches and hot fixes – which I have because I’m putting together a spreadsheet of weapon changes over the life of the game – it’s primarily buffs.

The 2nd bit of evidence was the first takedown. At launch it was locked at 4 player scaling and they warned everyone that the content was designed for 4 well geared and build optimized players. But the community went ape shyte and salt poured in torrential quantities from the heavens as the casual masses wailed and writhed at the (supposed?) injustice of having challenging content in the game :laughing:. To me it feels like this was the moment that put the game on the path to where it is now, which is easy mode. I used to care about it but I don’t anymore. I make do with what the game is and no longer lament what it is not or what it could have been. And I don’t fault GBX. They had a vision for what they wanted the game to be – slow steady progression to power with a decent range of challenge (e.g., story = easy, CoS/PGs = medium to medium++, takedowns = hard as ■■■■ – but the community shouted them down and told them no! So they gave the community what they wanted in the context of a game that wasn’t really designed for it.

I’m ending it here but I want to be clear that I’m not even remotely suggesting that this game has ever been balanced because Borderlands games have never been balanced and GBX sucks at balancing even when they try really hard :grin: (e.g., Battleborn; which I :heart_eyes: ). But the original version of BL3 was as good as GBX could have gotten in a Borderlands game.


I think you left out quite a bit of history in there but since you said:

I am happy and content with your response. :slight_smile:

(also agreed, just saw that part)


I did and that was intentional. My days of writing long detailed posts are kind of over because I just don’t care as much and ppl have better things to do than read my words. Plus my old posts on this subject matter exists so folks can look it up if they want to.


To be precise the community was upset about the time/reward ratio. The requests were to either make it faster/easier or to have 2/3 dedicated drop obtained per boss kill. The devs choose first the former solution, then also implemented the second one after some time.

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I wonder if part of the solution would be to give optional +levels to Mayhem mode. So if I really wanted a challenge for endgame gear, I could switch on Mayhem 11+5 and I would play with all my OP M10 gear while the enemies get beefier for those 5 levels. There would be no extra loot, levels on gear or enemy damage, just harder enemies. At +1 level you would have a decent difficulty increase while at +5 the likes of Moxsy’s Ricochet Wizard and Pinball Amara would be properly challenged.

i dunno, adding the option to play it on scaled did not remove anything though. you still had the option to play it on 4 player difficulty. to me, it were more of a fix to the imbalance between VHs. As a Moze main, it were insanely difficult to do on 4-player scaled because iron bear died in 3 seconds, very limited healing and SoR builds had their shield dropped in a few seconds despite them sacrificing their health gate, which is why many felt forced to use lvl 1 stop gap. Whereas on my Amara, it were easy as pie with shock/corrosive cutsman and a brainstormer. All scaled vs true takedown did for me were that it put my amara and moze on equal grounds, essentially.

it’s the balance changes and added items which followed that removed much of the challange the game had. Zane got seein’ dead from DLC 1, Moze had a ton of buffs to her skills and iron bear, Mayhem scaling etc etc.


You are right to a point, but only to a tiny point because the context is kinda weird. So here is the weirdness. The time/reward ratio (TRR) has always been and remains a problem in BL3 (and all Borderlands games if we are being totally honest). So it’s not like the rest of the game was great from a TRR perspective then Maliwan Takedown came along and got it so wrong that they needed to nerf it for the benefit of TRR.

This may have been what you wanted but that wasn’t everyone else’s perspective. For example, I specifically remember some ppl complaining that there shouldn’t be any 4 player difficulty content in the game because the game is primarily played solo. One person went as far as claiming that Borderlands was not a co-op game :face_with_raised_eyebrow:! I had to shut that one down hard.

Please note that I’m NOT yelling at you :laughing: but I just feel compelled to shout this next bit into the void.


It was supposed to be pick your difficulty level and/or slowly work your way up to M10 1. But the community said NO! They said they want to be able to play M10 day 1 and with every gun and piece of gear they already had! And that’s where we are today. So I’m not trying to be mean but your idea is a non starter because they already tried it and it hasn’t ended well. Or maybe it has? Because if you (3rd person you) love where the game is right now in terms of difficulty/challenge (i.e., ez mode) then your side won. Congrats! :partying_face:

To everyone else, please note, I’ve intentionally said nothing about the modifiers because it will only serve to obscure my main point. But if you can’t help yourself and you feel the need to bring it up, have it, but you will not get a reply from me. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

1That perspective was shared with the community in an episode of the Borderlands show. I’ve referenced the exact episode in a previous post from any months ago. You can look it up if interested, take my word for it, or not. It’s your life! :grin:

Played M10 from the start :joy:

First few hours where pretty fun… It felt like old M4 with a bit more oomph to it but then scaled gear started dropping, new level caps etc. And I was back to square 1 :pensive:

When they announced M2.0 I thought it would be like M4 across the board (with optional mods or harder mobs like in Diablo) but it didn’t fix anything and actually made the game even worse :confused:

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Just wait until the next DLC, and go to Marcus’s to sell your now worthless “great new gear”.

Trips to Uncle Marcus’s.

Courtesy of Uncle Randy.

Except it isn’t nepotism.

And they didn’t even pay for your college.

I get what you’re saying but what I’m suggesting would be closer to Mayhem 1.0. No mayhem modifiers, no higher levels of loot, no higher drop rate - just difficulty for the sake of a challenge. With it being the same in every other way except the enemies, they could instance the difficulty according to players so people could still matchmake together just as easily.

They release a new DLC that has new gear and new skill trees…

Oh btw the new DLC content, you don’t get to use your new gear… Or your new skill trees

Slow clap. What a brilliant move… This lack of synergy reminds me of Zane’s Undercover skill tree but in DLC form!

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