Copy and paste Tina, but worse

Could Ava’s story arc follow the same path as Tina’s did in BL2? Tina was mentored and raised by Roland who got shot and killed by Handsome Jack, leaving Tina very grief stricken over his death. In BL2 dlc, Tina has trouble coming to terms with the death of her friend and mentor. I feel like they might be heading down the same path with Ava. Ava loses her mentor (Maya) and has trouble coming to terms with it being her fault and blames Lilith. I feel like they could explore this story arc more through dlc, but I’m hoping to god they don’t. I, like everyone else, hate Ava. She is off brand Tina and deserves to rot in the deepest darkest corn hole Gearbox can muster.

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That would imply a good writing team.

This game does not have a good writing team

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I agree, the whole thing felt cheep and unoriginal… Copy and paste is pretty much spot on, fun favorite/important character get killed after they and the player achieved victory while the main antagonist enter the scene, player is unable to do anything about the situation (in BL3 is completely ignored). It suposed to bring up some emotions, however only thing it brought up for me was a question “You’re pulling that one again? Realy?” pathetic writing…

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Two chars that don’t fit to me are

Lorelei - slag that - being British, I’m wondering who the hell says that?

Vaughn - Bandit Stryyyyyyfe!

Ava could be a grower lets see how the dlc plays out.

People in the borderlands universe die costantly.
It’s not a “copy and paste”, it just happends.

I would not try to compare these characters.
Tina has a extra DLC where the player gets time how she felt about the loss of Roland. Also, Tina’s emotions are presented in a strange and ‘explosiv’ way. She tries to hold them in and plan a way to express these.
Ava is different. She is direct and react to her environment. Also, we don’t really know where she came. (Typhon mention it that the old cult on Athena would pay him if a bring them a siren.)

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To be fair, slag is a commonly used English term. It’s very similar to the more recognizable" f-u-c-k" word here as in they share the same meaning…kinda…

One of slags meaning is nasty hard sex “slaggin”. “He slagged her raw behind the dumpster.”

It is also used as a deragatory term to say that someone is dirty or unkempt. “Filthy slaggers”.

Im no linguistics professor but I did look the word up after BL2 came out lol and learning this much

In comparing the two characters, both were plot devices intended to advance the story. However, only Tina’s story and background added personality and mood to the theme of the game. Ava is a solitary character, who provides nothing to the game’s “story” other than as a supposed replacement for Maya.

It doesn’t help Ava that Tina had an awesome voice actress and much better writing.

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Sorry - that was meant to read as I am British…so know the full use of the term “slag”

It’s not a term you use like Lorelei did.

Slag predominately is a slur on women who are percieved to be ‘easy’ or has had several sexual partners.

The F word fits the phraseology far more appropriately and correctly.

To my ears, it sounds as bizarre as “clown me” or “clowining hell”…just doesn’t sound right.

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This is fictional slang for world-building purposes. Slag is a runoff waste material in eridium refinement (and in real world industries too), which we can assume goes on a lot after BL2.

It does happen to have use in IRL british places but that’s almost coincidence.

People keep saying wait for the DLC, but historically, Borderlands DLC isn’t a continuation of the main story. They have almost all of them been stand alone adventures. So in all likelihood we won’t see more of Ava’s character development, or lack thereof, until BL4.

Except in Cmdr Lileth…

which was a peculiar way to seque from one story arc to the new story arc.

Tina’s dlc was also a continuation of the story, but more in the character development sense. They could do a similar thing with ava in one of the dlcs. A dlc could focus on her and her siren powers and how she copes with maya’s death much like tina tried to cope with roland’s death through Bunkers and Badasses.

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Except Assault on Dragon Keep, Big Game Hunt and Son of Crawmerax clearly are.

Assault on Dragon Keep’s primary reasons to exist were to give Tiny Tina - a character most people considered nothing more than an annoying bratty teenager with a cliche tragic past - more character development than she has in the base game and also give Roland’s death the focus and emotional resonance they couldn’t during the main campaign. Sounds familiar? They even found a way to bring Roland back to life in it without retconning the story.

The apprentice who loses their mentor is a classic story element.

Assault on Dragon’s Keep is not a continuation of the main story at all. You said it yourself, it was mostly character development for Tiny Tina. Mostly what that DLC did was give closure for Roland’s death. That is not a continuation. It’s a group of friends gathering around to play a game that ends up being an emotional release.

Big Game Hunt is not a continuation either. It’s about a crazy dude with a Handsome Jack obsession. It doesn’t involve the Crimson Raiders or Hyperion or anything relating to the main story of BL2 other than the Handsome Jack obsession. If you don’t play it, your not really missing anything on the main story of Borderlands as a whole, just a few side characters.

Son of Crawmerax you could make an argument as a continuation since there are elements from the Vault Hunters past, the son of Crawmerax itself, and of course Mordecai getting his new bird.

The only real major continuation of the Borderlands story in DLC form is the Claptastic Voyage DLC from the Pre-Sequel, and…well…Gearbox didn’t make that one.

Also you mention giving Roland’s death the resonance that the main game could not and attempted to link that to Maya’s death. Well…the main game of BL2 may not have given it as much weight as the DLC, but it certainly gave it a heck of a lot more than BL3’s gave Maya. We see Lillith’s reaction that get’s her captured, and then we go around hearing the testimonials of a lot of the major Borderlands characters about Roland. Moxxi even cries. We do not get anything like that at all for Maya.

Roland even gets mentioned a few other times down the road. Such as Mordecai’s declaration, “For Roland, for Bloodwing, for Pandora”.

Your original argument was that we wouldn’t have further development for Ava or any closure for Maya’s death until BL4 because Borderlands DLC “historically” doesn’t continue the base game’s story and character development. I was only saying that you are factually wrong about that and that there is, in fact, a precedent for it in the franchise. I wasn’t making any quality comparisons on how well those things were handled on each game, that’s actually beside the point. I was only replying to an affirmation you made. An affirmation that you now seem to be contradicting.

By the way, all three DLC I mentioned deal directly with the aftermath of the main story, touch on specific plot points from it and expand on characters that we met but didn’t have much time with during it (Tiny Tina, Sir Hammerlock). They can’t exist without the main story and won’t make any sense if you didn’t play it first. That’s a continuation.

But sure, we could just ignore what you said originally and turn this into a semantics discussion about the meaning of the word “continuation” instead, if that’s what you prefer.

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Actually, all that I said was that the DLC is not historically a continuation of the main story, I never said anything about character development. So I am not actually factually wrong about anything.

However, fair enough, there is a precedent for further character development in DLC. But there is still very little of that for main characters in a DLC. So if we go by sheer math then the likelihood is still low.

It is possible that we will get further character development for Ava in the future, I never said that it was a 100% chance that we would not. Regardless, some of that character development should have been in the main game, as it was for Tina. That is going to forever tarnish Ava in a lot of people’s minds.

Dude, this is what you were replying to when you made your argument:

And here’s what you actually said in reply to that:

I’m really not making stuff up or putting words in your mouth here.

Glad we’re on the same page now. Moving on then.

And it is. Whether you care for it or not doesn’t change the fact that it is there. Tina and Ava get roughly the same amount - and arguably the same quality - of character development in their respective base games (although I’d be inclined to say Ava actually gets more).

Now, did Ava have enough of a presence in the game for being such an important character? That’s debatable. Personally, I would’ve liked to see a bit more of her. But that’s actually the reason some people think a DLC focused on her could be beneficial to the character, same as BL2 DLC was beneficial to Tiny Tina.

Asura’s Wrath 2.0
Want the real story? Want things to make sense? Gotta pay $14.99 for it.

I’m also not sure how in the hell Ava is like Tina. Both had parental figures die, but other than that they literally have nothing in common aside from gender. Tina’s grief wasn’t a major point in the story. Her reaction was not a central point of how the universe was to take shape. Ava’s was MEANT to be. Instead we got a whiny brat who gets over it as soon as you head to the next planet.

Also, the deaths were handled differently. With Roland we didn’t really have TIME to react. Job done, we’re in the clear! Pop! Bang! “Hi, Lil. You work for me now”. Get teleported out.
With Maya we have 3 minutes of monologue where Maya could have bailed or actually DONE something other than stand there and where the VH literally just sits their with their thumb up their ass. The whole thing is telegraphed like a truck coming at you at 5kph.

I’m personally of the hope that Ava is either nigh completely ditched, becomes an NPC akin to what they did to Mordi, Brick, and Tina in this game, or that they fire the writer(s) who made her and hire someone who understands how to write competent character development.

I know that sounds harsh, but damn. The story is the thing we have to play through repeatedly in these games and I hate experiencing this one.

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