#1

If we played maps where the main and natural resource spots would run out on full saturation at the 5-6 minute mark, meaning a very much more nomadic + dynamic game. I might even solve the bc crisis

#2

the biggest problem you’re likely to run into is tuning the maps so that harvesters don’t need constant micro. When they exhaust a patch there’s a limit to how far they’ll look for another rock to munch on. That limit can be changed in modding, but that goes beyond just map design.

#3

The amount of time collectors stay at one patch is a HW2 thing. HW1 collectors went all over the place, but were not soft spots the way the were in Cata and HW2. In Cata, how and when you moved your collectors was part of the game. We even had a name for the technique “Terminal Harvesting”. You can read about it in the Cata bible.

Good players took advantage of knowing when collectors would move for attacking during RU lag and worker transit, and terminal harvesting was the act of moving your collectors one at a time after dropping a load to their new patch so that every collector transitioned with an empty tank and not locking up RU that could be spent on units.

Maybe if we played games with low RU multipliers? Of if the map makers designed maps so that there were a lot more smaller patches that depleted after 5 minutes?

#4

Not to mention that only half the races have collectors that move above 200 m/s.

#5

on the majority of maps that transition from the hw2 time, there seems to be very little incentive for map control, given the massive amount of rus one can get from 1/2 patches; the hw1 based maps do seem to have more limited ru spots close to the ms, making the recource war more important. I also agree it might mitigate the ‘slap your bc on the table’ thing at least a bit if this was more prevalent.

#6

I envision a new way to play, by having ru patches (ala hw2 crimson bond) , but with more emphasis on nomadic movement because they run out (ala hw1 scattered). Brb!

#7

Actually if they would give hw1 collectors the ability to hyperspace again that might balance out the slow movement on maps where the ru is very limited per patch

#8

Sure let me waste resources jumping collectors rather than speed them up, good idea. That won’t affect the war machine at all.

#9

:smiley: Well speeding them up as well would maybe be a bit too strong ? You seem to be 100% convinced that allowing them to hyper to relocate after a ru patch is exhausted will be a drain rather than a boon. Care to elaborate on the reasoning ?

I was under the impression that in a static situation the ru/min they bring in is more or less balanced with the hw2 races. It stands to reason that if you will speed them up then you will put the eco system out of whack ?

#10

Not quite. The collectors are relatively balanced when they start at there RU location with-in 1k from their rock. Over time the difference in the amount they collect, the speed they move, the amount of time they spend harvesting a rock, and the amount of time it takes them to drop their loads (drop off animation) all work out with-in a few k RU of each other, slight advantage to Hig in test I ran.

However, if the RU Op were to move 10km to another RU op, HW2 collectors moving at 276ms will resumes collection in about 36 seconds while HW1 collectors take 90 seconds to relocate. Depending on the size of your Op, you are usually looking at an amount per minute between 2 and 6k. Or the difference in a few frigates, and entire class of research, or an entire Cruiser advantage to HW2.

If we say collectors can jump to relocate, the jump amount would have to be equal to the loss RU in transit time for the HW2 race. So if we take a rough number and say the HW2 collecors were bringing in 2k per minute, then it cost 1000 to move. That means that the jump cost for 6 HW1 between 100 and 200 RU. Sounds doable actually. We’ll have to see the final number on Jump cost.

If we wanted to just speed up the collectors, there are several other variables that can be used to compensate the extra speed (load, harvest time, drop off animation).

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#11

What he said!

#12

Thank you for the very comprehensive reply rata.

There is another factor to consider that has come out of the games i’ve been playing online, that seems to point at the ‘give colls hyperspace capability’ thing.

It seems to me that due to their very slow speed, hw1 collectors are VERY vulnerable to midgame harassment by early capitals. Whereas hw2 collectors can just run out with limited losses and move on to another ru patch (again, they do so quite fast, so not only do they lose few harvesters to a hypered desty, the ‘down time’ to resume harvesting is limited), the hw1 collectors are simply too slow to avoid getting blown up en masse. Even if you have something nearby to answer the destroyer, you WILL lose the majority of the collectors before the destroyer dies, which is a clearly lopsided trade for the agressor on all levels considering the cost and buildtime (and in the case of the defending player, prolonged loss of income and opportunity cost of having to produce all the colls again, taking up a buildline) of the involved units.

It seems to me that giving them a low hyper cost in the 100/200 range would balance this trade of recources.

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