Couple of Build questions

I’m running through the game again as a Siren, and I’m looking at what build I want to run. I’m not sure if I’ll go up to OP8, but I do at least want to hit UVHM and Level 72. I understand there’s basically a generic build that ends up being the core of most builds at that level, and I’m wondering what that is. The other question is, what would a Level 72 Thoughtlock build look like? I haven’t actually tried Thoughtlock yet, and I’m thinking it’s about time I did so.


this is the necessary skills IMO, the rest is up to your preference and build

Motion - Ward, Inertia for shields especially if you are using the bee, Converge
Harmony - Sweet Release and Elated for healing, wreck for added DPS, Res 1 point in Restoration for coop
Cataclysm - Foresight, Cloud Kill, Chain Reaction, Reaper, Ruin.

For Thoughlock build, you can go 2 ways (with subsequence or without subsequence). With Subsequence you want to kill the thoughlock target fast so converge and other phaselock skills will go off everytime. Without subsequence, you thoughlock the most badass enemy around you to draw aggro away from you and help him clear the rest of the enemy.

@jefe can help you with thoughlock build without subsequence and maybe @Adabiviak for thoughlock subsequence builds. they are both thoughtlock masters.


That’s what I’d run at level 72 for a Thoughtlock build, with a Legendary Siren COM :

This is a very DPS oriented spec that takes full advantage of Thoughtlock as an Action Skill. You can use any gear you want as long as it’s viable, but I’d heavily recommend a Bone of the Ancients for minimizing that cooldown, as well as obviously the Legendary Siren COM.
You can get those items as early as possible by farming the Legendary Loot Midgets in Wildlife Exploitation Preserve via the Doctor’s Orders quest.

@nat_zero_six you pulled the trigger faster it looks like. :joy:


Thanks. I’m currently Level 43 in TVHM, though I’m only about to face Wilhelm (did some farming to get better gear on a couple of occasions). I’m currently running a Legendary Siren COM, as I got lucky and picked one up from a random chest. I’m heavily invested in the Harmony tree at the moment, as I’ve never messed around with Scorn. However, I’m considering respeccing to get more invested in the Cataclysm tree, as it can also Slag, and has more options for damage.


For Thoughtlock with Sub Sequence, I find some skills indespensable, which largely defines the build. Most of the skills are personal preference, but here are the ones that define this playstyle for me:

Suspension - this keeps the Thoughtlock/Sub Sequence action going longer.

Converge - with Sub Sequence re-firing several times in a good sized mob, Converge will regularly re-condense the mob. The closer the mob is together, the more they share in Ruin, Helios, Cloud Kill, any area-effect damage you throw in there. Also, Sub Sequence will re-acquire a target almost immediately when the next target is very close (so less wasted action skill timer), and Chain Reaction is way less likely to miss when the reflected shot doesn’t have far to go to the target. On top of all this, ranged enemies seem to switch to melee mode when close to a target, so they’re less prone to try to run away for cover and a clean shot.

Sub Sequence - the core of this build… not less than five points here.

Once you’re at Thoughtlock, then start down the Cataclysm tree. The first couple layers are really up to you.

Helios - this will fire with each re-acquisition, but if you’re not in love with the damage, don’t sweat it.

Cloud Kill - I personally find Cloud Kill to be a little too strong here; if you time it right so Cloud Kill is active on the newly Thoughtlocked target such that Converge pulls the mob into the Cloud (and Ruin applies slag), everyone will die fast.

Blight Phoenix - one of my favorites mostly because it feels very Siren-like to wander into this brainwashed crowd and scorch them by proximity.

Ruin - This is mostly to slag everyone being drawn near the target, but the other elemental damage is nice too.

From here, pick your favorites down the Harmony tree. Sweet Release will fire a lot if you’re getting numerous kills per Thoughtlock, where Elated will be on more if you grab one big fella for the duration.


I’ll just add some optional one-pointers :

  • Kinetic Reflection : good for a bit of damage reduction.
  • Backdraft : if you use Moxxi, the nova will give you some healing which is good since your shield is down!
  • Blight Phoenix : can pop barrels, but it can also block psycho axes and the like. Works great with Life Tap.

There are basically two common build types : SS/TL or Scorn. There are others obviously (i.e.Trickster).
The Scorn build is basically the Twisted Pimp.

As the others said, you’ve got variations within the former :

  • Sub-Sequence - great as you get Converge, Helios, Sweet Release trigger several times plus sustained Wreck, Inertia and Kinetic Reflection. Can be used with either Legendary Siren or Legendary Binder. I prefer the former for the Peak, the latter for trash mobs.

  • SS with TL - see Ad’s and Enderborn’s posts really. It has its fans but I don’t like it, mostly because I’m forever losing my Thoughtlock’d target. I prefer the bouncing bubble of SS without TL.

  • Thoughtlock without SS - honestly it’s sub-optimal but I like it. The reason it’s sub-optimal is because you don’t get all the potential crowd control, healing and DPS of SS. You have to invest a bit more into Harmony (meaning Elated. Since you keep your TL target alive, Elated is really the only healing skill that’s going to do anything for you).

I would only use the Leg Binder for this personally but put the point into Flicker for the option of using the Siren. Obviously there’s some trash points here and there to fill out the tree.


Thanks for all the input. I’ve currently respecced my Level 43 Siren down the Motion tree, and am giving that a try. I do have Subsequence to see how I like it. So far, it’s taken some getting used to, just because of the difference in how it behaves. It’s too early to say whether or not I like it, though. I plan to give it a lot more time before I make a final conclusion.

Also, tangential question: I remember hearing about a build for Maya that could crash consoles. I’m on Xbox, so I’m wanting to steer clear of this if need be, but I recently upgraded to an Xbox One X. I can’t remember what the build was, and I also don’t know if the One X is capable of handling whatever was making the original Xbox crash. Does anyone have any insight?


Chain Reaction can do this, especially when boosted by a Trickster COM and especially on the Bunker. I’m on PC and have crashed to desktop a few times, but I also tried to do it cuz it amuses me :smile:

I have a vid somewhere…I’ll have a look. This will do :


And if it’s crashing you on a PC, something tells me even a One X won’t stand up to it.

Not going to lie, I’d love to play on PC, but all my friends are on console. It’s annoying, as I actually have a gaming PC, but if I switched over to that, I’d never speak with them.