Cruisers and frigates Balancing Issues

Hi

First the balancing is much better then I thought it would be. But there are some issues with frigates and cruisers that needs to be changed.

Let’s start with frigates. They are dying way(!) to fast. Give all of them at least 50% more health. They are capships and not big fighters. In Homeworld 1 their balancing was just fine, bring it back that way.
Taidan and Kushan Assault frigates needs to be changed. Their purpose is to fight corvettes and frigates. At the moment they are designed to combat fighters and this is just wrong. Give them back their intended role!

Battlecruisers and Heavy Cruisers are way to powerful in terms of firepower. A destroyer roughly cost half the ressources of cruiser. A cruiser has about 2.4 times the hitpoints which is fine but about five(!) times the firepower which is just ridiculus.
At the moment there is nothing that can match a cruiser for it’s cost. Even three destroyers which are way more expensive will lose against a single cruiser. We don’t need to talk about frigates here they are just pointless against a cruiser.
Cruisers are too cheap for that much firepower and more important this is homeworld which is a game about long and beautiful space battles. A ship that can kill everything in a matter of seconds isn’t homeworld at all!
The damage of all cruisers should be reduced by 50%. That would balance them pretty well according to frigates and destroyers. Also it would make fights last longer and so give players more possibilities to react.

These changes would give the game a much better balancing and bring back more of the originally homeworld feeling. So please think about it and test it. You wont’t be disappointed. Thanks :wink:

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I have been taking about that even before the game launch, I think they left this to later balancing.
Im happy to see so many post complaining on how capital ships from hw 1 got fragile. I will later make some suggestions, I’m on my phone right now lol.

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I haven’t noticed that the cruisers are too powerful. They’re extremely expensive, and their stats do reflect that.

They aren’t impossible to take down, you just have to be prepared. Just like any assault.

~Three times the hull but five times the firepower. That’s a pretty large buff. Especially when the mothership, carrier, destroyer and frigates don’t get 5 times the hull to compensate for it…

I was noticing the problem even in this post in the old forums:

http://oldforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=407311

To sum up the most glaring issue is due to the increased firepower of every unit, sometimes even 3+ times it’s equivalent class in Homeworld 1 without a corrispective increase in durability.

Need more hull or an effective way to repair them ships!

Dang even a single Heavy Cruiser steamrolls any capital you trow at it now and can last till the enemy mothership, which of course it will kill in a few seconds… unless there’s also a battlecruiser then the match is pretty much over in this case.

I did play some HW 1 recently and productions ships didn’t felt that weak: hey here I am with my 3 ion frigates, puff carrier done and why? Because those 3 frigates have more firepower together than the old Heavy Cruiser…

This is the feeling about Homeworld 1 beta, while Hiigaran and Vaygr are quite the same hence… no problem? Well there were some issues even back then about poor frigates survivability so it’s definitely something to discuss with the community.

As soon as it is possible I will mod and test some new combinations of course, I’m sure there’s a sweep spot in between that most of us could accept.

They are almost impossible to take down, if don’t get another cruiser to fight it, or a huge laser corvette swarm you will not stop it, not a chance, and they are not that hard to build also, just turtle your ships and you will get one pretty fast.

The game is pretty well balanced right now!

To get the BC/HCs you need a ton or research ($$$) and the Hiigs/Vagyr also need a shipyard ($$$) and capital ship module ($$$ and blows up easily). If you use scouts/probes and see your opponent rushing BC/HC = just show up with your fleet. They’ll have an inferior fleet = you’ll crush them!

Even if they get BC/HC out, you can quickly strikecraft/corvette them to death if they don’t have support (which they won’t because they rushed).

The game is balanced when you look at the factions as a whole package, not a Specific unit vs Specific unit.

In small and medium maps that might be true, you can rush the enemy fast enough to stop a cruiser rush, but in large maps it is all about cruisers, you can’t toss stuff fast enough to stop a cruiser rush, and because of that ubber firepower you are obligated to build one as well.

Since the map is large, build carriers with hyperspace inhibitors + a ton of strikecraft/corvettes = BCs are far less useful since they can’t outrun anything.

Focus on destroying their production with strikecraft raids (you’ll be superior in firepower since you didn’t waste your $ on shipyards/research/time for BCs)

I am just saying that a simple ‘frigates are weak compared to BCs’ doesn’t give the strategic/tactical depth of the game the credit it deserves.

The game is more balanced then most people realise! Just be flexible in thought and action!

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Not saying it isn’t balanced, it’s actually quite good, indeed you have tons of options and rock-paper-scissors tactics but right now I feel many units way less useful, especially the poor HW1 fighters and corvettes.
But that’s a different issue we know, the frigates and all the capital ships on the other and are definitely in a extreme bad condition of bigger = exponentially better.
I’ll never build two destroyers right now rather than a cruiser, unless I can build all of them simultaneously or I still haven’t researched the latter.

So here you say here you say go for strike craft, in the topic about fighters being weaker you say go for gravwel with frigs, kinda contradictory isn’t.

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…what is a Gravity Well Generator going to do against a BattleCruiser? And I never said anything about Frigates in that post.

Anyway, there is no contradiction. In the other topic, I said the HW1 factions can decimate HW2 strikecraft with their Gravity Well Generator (and thus make up for strikecraft imbalance). In this topic, I am saying that you can still beat a BC heavy fleet with a carrier group with massive strike craft swarms (on a large map).

Where do you see a contradiction between the 2 topics?

@paradoxnrt
First yes there are tactics to counter a cruiser. But it doesn’t matter which you choose, the best tactic in terms of RU cost to counter a cruiser is to build one yourself. And everything else will only work if there is one lonely cruiser without any escorts.

But what you are doing here is ignoring the main point. This just is NOT what the original Homeworld is all about. Gearbox said they want to bring the original game feeling back. In the original game there were no ships that could oblibarate any other capital in a matter of seconds. I agree a heavy cruiser has to be powerful and it was very powerful in the original game but now it’s just to much. Homeworld isn’t about fast battles, If you want this go play starcraft as example.
And hell this is a beta. Don’t say it’s bad without testing it. If it’s worse then now there is no problem to bring the high damage values back. But believe me the feeling of the game is much better without so fast kills!

True, 1 counter can be building BCs of your own. Another could be massing a less powerful fleet and attacking your opponent before he has time to pull out a BC. Another would be creating a strikecraft heavy fleet that can take out the enemy’s BC rush (because if he rushed) = he is short on counters to your strikecraft.

BCs are the slowest unit = unless the map is small, you can keep the distance from these things for a while (with Gravity Wells). But when they move on your resourcing/production centers…its hard to deal with having to move all your stuff around while fighting…

Still, keep in mind that the BC is just as powerful as it was in HW2…and it is considered a well balanced multiplayer experience.