Current State of the Meta

I am making this thread for people to discuss there current griefs, complaints, and praises for the way things are, focusing on characters. I will start

Galilea: It still really bothers me that she has every CC in the game, lifesteal, regen, and a shield. ideally i would like these CCs to be choice, Pull or Silence.

Shane: Shane was kind of lacking before, but now that he has Damage reduction on shields and movement speed, it seems that she has slightly too much, especially because she starts with a large health pool and 600 shields. would really like to see a heath reduction if she is going to be a shield fighter with recharge activation and rate in her kit. Aurox should not be canceled out instantly on fetch, instead will be destroyed by taking damage equal to her current shield.

Toby: His position as a wave clearing sniper is fine, but what doesn’t seem to make sense is that his critical hits can hit certain players for over 2/3rds of their health (Orendi, Dragon, Beny, Miko) When he already does massive damage with his shots. Ideally id enjoy a critical multiplier reduction.

Orendi: The only thing, Pillarstorm, being able to do over 3000 damage to a player in 5 seconds or less is insane. Make pillarstorm do 25/50% power for the pillars it spawns. or perhaps a complete functionality change.

Dragon: Let me say that this is going to be a bit biased because hes my favorite. Dropkick is basically useless, a lunge distance and damage increase would be nice. A major health or shield boost would be appropriate, he has a similar healthpool to orendi but a hitbox 2x-3x the size. Perhaps, a 1.5% CC reduction with his passive stacks would be a good fit into his roll as an agile skirmisher. To make Power fist viable, have it replace the clap instead of primary combo. Raise The movement speed at level 5 to be an actual choice against the damage reduction. Level 1 mutation should have its effect + X Seconds, to be an actual choice. and finally give him the 2 second stun back, other characters get 2 seconds as a normal skill and he gets 1 second every 60? Give the size back on his electric splash if its only going to do 200 damage. or increase the damage/add a CC effect to it.

Beatrix: Move the silence farther down the tree, or make it single target, reduce passive wound percentage. lvl 1 left helix should apply to targets that players affected by patient zero attacks instead. Make the impact of her bullets more noticeable and noisy to actually realize that your being shot.

Alani: Map Self heal to Reload button, do something with her level 2 helixes, they really dont help.

Kelvin: With All the regen gear buffs recently his stun could viably be put back to one second.

Increase CC reduction gear to make them usable.
Make the percentages even, 9.1 atk dmg to 10%, i dont see a point to them being strange percentages. round to the nearest .0 or .5%
Shield penetration increase to make more usable
Sheild delay increase from 1.05 to 1.5

Please leave your thoughts below.

I like how El Dragon can exceed 3000 damage in 5 seconds and you called for massive buffs to him.

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Oh, and you forgot to mention anything about Boldur.

Good post.

Shayne does see a bit too strong, diving the back line and even killing squishies when there next to their sentry whilst easily making it out alive, he shouldn’t be able to escape the situations he always escapes from, he’s low risk high gain right now and in the right hands destroys all the back line players.

The rest i feel have counters already, i wreck most Toby’s easily, if he’s left to snipe away he’s a danger yes, so focus him down, disrupt him, whatever. If he has a nice tank and healer at the front line then he can do huge damage, but that’s a big if.

I love the Alani idea, having to swing my view to the ground, heal, then re align my sights is so annoying, or burst healing a minion when you’re on 5% health, fun!

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Galilea’s problems go beyond a simple fix like you suggest, although I agree with the notion.


Shayne and Aurox is probably one of the most balanced characters the game has to offer at the moment. The destructible fetch is an issue, but that extends to basically every projectile in the game being destructible, and should be fixed by fixing all the other projectiles at the same time. Reducing her base health because she has the shield recharge options is a bad idea, because then it forces her to be built as a shield tank. Right now, they have one of the largest sets of viable build paths the game has to offer. I would change nothing about her at the moment other than fixing fetch.


Toby is fine being the highest DPS in the game because of how easy he is to counter with his massive frame and effective reliance on his shield being up. A critical hit multiplier reduction is dumb in general (special cases are an issue), and would be contrary to his position as a sniper.


Pillarstorm is an issue. Reducing the damage on the pillars is not the solution. It needs to become something different entirely. A suggestion I’ve heard and entertained wher keeping the pillars, but removing the nuke at the end. Another one was making it apply a hard CC knockback that could stun you into a wall (allowing for single target deletion but not team wipe potential), although this would probably replace the existing helix with similar functionality. Another one is it giving vision of the entire enemy team and being able to travel through walls (like wallhack.exe on Marquis).


Increasing his health and shields is not the solution. He needs to fit the glass cannon archetype, but right now he has burst damage on his skills (clothesline does crazy damage) and meh damage outside them, and has decent survivability with his buffed shield, hang time, and the 30% DR helix. I want to see them remove the DR entirely and improve his damage options so that he can effectively 1v5 with his ult if you don’t focus him, but will fail to even get close if you do.

One major issue with him though is in neither the damage nor survivability department, but in his painfully long animations, especially on Dragon Splash.


The location of the silence or it existing at all is not the issue. It being a 4s ranged silence that homes in and can have a 9s cooldown is an issue. It needs to lose the homing properties and not re-apply with each projectile at minimum.


Agree completely. This also needs to apply to Beatrix so that you don’t P0 yourself or your teammate when you meant to do otherwise.


Regen gear is not strong on Kelvin next to other survivability options like max health, DR, and healing received, so regen gear being buffed had no impact on him. His stun is basically all he has, and is the only reason he has a place in the meta currently. He relies entirely on his team capitalizing on the opportunities he creates. Reducing the stun to 1 second would once again make him completely non-viable in casual play and only semi-viable in competitive play.


Agree on CC reduction gear. I heard Gearbox tossing around ideas about one-time use gear for cleansing CC; I hope it never gets implemented, because it’s a terrible idea and doesn’t address the core issue (there is too much CC in this game; 29/30 characters have a slow, 16/30 characters have hard CC somewhere in their kit).

I don’t have a problem with the values on gear being not round.

Shield pen is not usable regardless of the value assigned as long as you can’t crit. It should be removed from the game entirely and replaced with something else.

Shield delay reduction is already a 21% buff, and can be stacked up to 58.8% (making it a 2s delay). Making it 30% would be incredibly strong, and would mean you could stack up to 84% (0.8s delay). I’m hoping you see how this is a bad idea.

One of the core issues with gear is that you aren’t incentivised to build specific stats (specifically offensive stats) on certain characters. AD gear is going to have the same impact on your primary-based attackers as it will on your tanks, so everyone just runs max health instead of AD because of how powerful it is on squishies that have decent base damage. This game has no concept of variable scaling which punishes building health on squishy attackers because you miss out on a lot of damage potential.


Galilea: The problem is the level 1 pull, cause it is used often as a finisher after you get hit by her stun. Without it the use of her field must be planned. If she begins with it you have time to flee. If she stuns you and puts it down she sacrifices part of her stun. Remove her vortex pull and remodel her ult. She can have an ultimate armor like montana with more defence and reflecting shield instead of a safe escape and life regen.

Shayne: I have no problems with him/her. Maybe get rid of the stun and leave only the pull to give her less CC. To solve your problem one could get her a negative passive. For example she has a built in 5-10 % shield pen against her going.

Toby: Same as above I think he is fine. Mostly he is sitting behind a field and you can dodge him and harass him pretty easily especially as the BB you mentioned(maybe not with miko).

Orendi: Pillarstorm is crazy, but if you are honest how many matches last to level 10? A lot of them are ragequitted or surrendered or finishied before someone reaches level 10.

Dragon: Dropkick is useless but he can be a beast if you stack his passive. Maybe you can give him his old powers back if he activates his ult with full stacks?

Beatrix: Silence is too long. You can leave it if you get rid of the homing.

Alani: Self heal button is ok, miko has it on the same button. Level 2 helixes are trash but I can live with that, because she is one the BB with the more game changing helixes.

Kelvin: One second stun is too low imo. I see it on ISIC. If you stun someone with his dash and you turn around the stun is over. Kelvin lives from his stun, cause he uses it to start engagning or escape.


I agree with CC reduction,shield pen and maybe even percentages. I dont know what you mean with shield delay increase? I thought it is 5 seconds before it recharges?



In what game have you seen a dragon do 3k i 5 seconds, he is currently one of the most underpowered characters. all his massive damage is DOT from his ult, in which he is so squishy he can be shut down easily. he may be able to do massive damage but not if he gets wrecked by most any other character. He needs balance.

I’ve actually just returned from 6 months travelling so a lot of changes have passed me by.

Can someone confirm if they needed sentry damage? People seem to just dive you next to your sentry and run out no problem whereas before the sentry would kill them quickly.

And i mean when there are no minions so they have full aggro from the sentry.

Boldur is just boldur, i tend to ignore him even when he’s on low health, or pick someone who can damage him if my team don’t, Ernest orendi etc with aoe damage.

A lot of the issues that make people seem op is that your team mates counter pick themselves ie. Gunners and melee are always going to struggle with the tanks

En Fuego. El Dragon’s DPS while his ult is active is VERY high. I won’t deny that he needs some love but giving him straight buffs is dangerous. He has a kit for a glass cannon but a 30% damage reduction in a game with broken max health gear.


Dragon isn’t actually squishy if you build the right gear because of his DR at 5 and his ult gives him the highest melee dps in the game. He is a solid character late game but if you can’t make it to the late game with him he’s just a dead weight who could have been a Rath. At level 10 his ult hits for around 110 damage 4 times a second but it could be higher now since i haven’t tested it when his passive got buffed. His DR combined with the 100% life steal on clothesline makes him extremely tanky late game if you built health on him.

I could pull up some of my match history and show you what Dragon is currently capable of in the right hands if you want.


ninja’d -_-’

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Watching you play El Dragon when you were briefly on ps4 changed my opinion of him.

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You should’ve seen the stuff he and cade were pulling off with their Rath/Dragon combo a few days ago.


You should have seen me in his prime… Grant did mention the plan for him was to return his damage so hopefully i’ll one day put out the highest damage every game like i used to. Q.Q

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Playing Dragon on Incursion is a scary thing. Either I’m the only initiation so I die but confirm kills or I’m super annoying and focus your squishy backline all game. I noticed you guys stopped camping at chokepoint… I wonder why ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )

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I am not saying that he needs all of those buffs, very obviously, those are just suggestions. i am well aware of his capabilities as a late game tank with health gear. but the problem is health or DR gear is basically requred if you want to stay in lane. I play him enough to know his strengths and weaknesses. his damage reduction is basically required. Id like that not to be the case. he is a weird character because one buff that seems simple could tilt him way into being OP. HIs ult is one of the strongest but with all the cc that runs rampant he gets slowed or stunned to the point where he cant make proper use of it.

He needs to be a glass cannon, but right now its more like a glass shotgun, epic in the right hands but too much kickback for everyone else.

i get that your a great dragon @Dr_H0H0 but can you truly say he is in a great spot for anyone else? My best games with him come from great team dynamics.

I have close to 550 games with him, id like to think i have some idea of his current status.

And he is a character that needs great team dynamics to do well…

If you have a team of sniper’s and no healer how is he going to do well when he has to dive in solo…

I love attikus but he is so situational without a team built around him he sucks, and against certain heroes he sucks, and imo is similar to dragon, big, damage heavy but takes a lot of damage, high risk high reward type of hero

Attikus doesn’t really need specific teams to be good. His greatest weakness is his horrible early game but once he gets his later levels he can dive solo, secure a couple kills and let his team follow up on his push.

The only requirement I’d say you need with Attikus is a dedicated healer on your team (as in not Reyna)

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I would ideally like S&A to have the ability to be a jack of all trades again, as recent Buffs to sheild and such have also nerfed her Fleet footed, and it feels like no matter the helix, she is always a tank. Off release, They where effectively what you specialised them to be, even if tank was a bit weaker, but now Assassin mode is pathetic. Please move some Sheild Dr / Health down the line, and give fleet footed back. Oh, and have a helix to make Arrox harder to kill while fecthing