#41

What about shield recharge rate?

#42

Slightly off the mark because you have to take delay into consideration too. No matter how good your recharge rate is, if your delay is longer than the intervals of the shots you take, your rechange rate is exactly 0. Essentially, you have to be outside combat to fully appreciate your recharge rate. But yes: in absolute terms, a DR will be the equivalent of a better recharge rateā€¦since DR is the equivalent of a higher shield cap and your total delay time remains the same.

Health regen is easier because it is constant

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#43

Iā€™m not sure what you mean by this. Health Regen regenerates health, and that health is then used to greater effect due to the acting DR. If youā€™re playing Zer0 with a RR and you get a kill, Grim will regenerate a percentage of your shield, which is then ā€œboostedā€ by 20% DR.

EDIT Iā€™M A DERP RR DERP DERP DERP

*secondary edit - Using a Blockade is the example I was going for. Maya, Axton, Zer0, and Gaige all have abilities that regenerate shields on kill.

#44

Exactlyā€¦hence it is why you see players who donā€™t understand thisā€¦charge in with an in your face playstyle and wonder why their 1.86 Delay Neo is not keeping them aliveā€¦LOL

And your point also adds to the consideration that that Skin of the Ancients I quoted with two resistances and Cap and Recharge is one of the best defensive relics in the gameā€¦ESPECIALLY when mixed with a Blockade.

Edit: In factā€¦really the ONLY time I worry about delay is when using a Beeā€¦but itā€™s OK thenā€¦because I am using a much more careful playstyle in order to keep the shield up to produce Amp damage. And that careful play style really helps kick delay in quickly

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#45

Yes, that is correct. Iā€™m having trouble finding the right words to explain what I meant (language barrier and all)
But Regen skills all only affect either shield or health, never both, so while their nominal effect will be boosted by the same percentage as the DR, their overall effect on ā€œTotal HPā€ will not since there is always roughly half of your HP it canā€™t touch.

I meanā€¦ I shouldnā€™t have said that it was incorrect, as it wasnt.
Soā€¦sorry

ā€¦ Alright :stuck_out_tongue:

#46

I was being self-deprecating so others wouldnā€™t have a chance to point out my mistakeā€¦ ITā€™S A SERIOUS PERSONALITY PROBLEM (in the immortal words of Mr. Torgue Flexington). I see what you meant, no worries.

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#47

Recharge delay isnā€™t really relevant here as it doesnā€™t change the the indirect buff to shield/health capacity or shield/health regeneration (depending on wich formula youā€™re using) that DR gives.

#48

Yes, I get what you mean, though I already answered that a bit higher:

You can consider your recharge rate as a regen of a sort (though one that you have to treat differently because it is based on a flat value instead of a %based one. Though in the case of DR, it is irrelevant)

#49

About Gaige, MoSS boosted to 10/5, the Blockade and a resistance relic is by far the best way to face the dragons. Dunno about all the math as Im not a math guy but you can feel the difference.

#50

Thatā€™s interesting. I havenā€™t gotten into raiding on Gaige yet, have you tried that fight both with and without MoSS? The added melee damage goes to waste since DT canā€™t actually melee the dragons, right? I am personally accustomed to RPGs where 10% bonus effective health is a great buff (through armor, typically), but it seems like Borderlands was designed to blow that minor damage mitigation out of the water in UVHM. *edit - I feel I should clarify that the only reason I ask is because you said you can feel the difference, and I have never really specifically noticed the effects of DR, personally.

I must confess that for all of this talk about the merits of DR, I havenā€™t really attempted a tank build in either BL2 or TPS slinks sheepishly over to the corner, hides face. (As a side note, what is the character escape sequence on this forum? I prefer using asterisks over italicized text when denoting action taken in the style of an emote.) I tend to find that it isnā€™t really a natural playstyle for me. But I am glad to hear that there are people that do already appreciate DR. I think Claptrapā€™s Health, DR, and regen skills are really well implemented, he feels very sturdy when I play him.

#51

MoSS is *maybe the most underwhelming of the DR skills in the game, not really sure why go with such low values when the game implements an asymptotic formula.

On the subject of a tanky build a hellborn-mania melee psycho with 10/5 in Taste of Blood, 5/5 Numbed Nerves, RtB and a Rough Rider is really resilient with some stacked health and healing from Elemental Empathy.

*might depend if you consider DR from kill-skills worse or not.
about char escaping you can use backslash ā€˜\ā€™, using html entities directly or some other ways through markdown or html.

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#52

Iā€™ve been wondering about that. How come melee Kriegs donā€™t grab a FotF and throw a few points into Numbed Nerves instead of using the Rough Rider? If I had to guess Iā€™d assume it is due to the novas canceling if you go down, but it seems like the pulsing AoE and Elemental Empathy heals would make up for that.

#53

Krieg has 3 skills: Taste of Blood (up to 80%), Numbed Nerves (up to 50%), and Release the Beast (50%)

#54

I believe the biggest reason is that some people find FotF cheap (to the levels of sham-fleeting in my opinion) but I also would say:

  • Without a +n% health shield (Rough Rider, Neogenator/Evolution) Kriegā€™s health at op8 becomes too unstable, going empty then full then empty too quickly to my liking;

  • Since a melee kill during BxR gives full-health then why not get the most of it with 5/5 Feed the Meat + Rough Rider + Blood of the Ancients?

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#55

One thing to be noted about TPS is that they learned from the lessons of BL2: skills scale better and they have been generally more savvy with their maths.

Yeah, as I said in a reply above, I had totally forgotten about RTB (or that taste of blood could go to 80% for that matter)

The extra health (and DR) is essential as Silence the Voices really hurts at high levels

#56

Yeah, I suppose having a strong health base to work off of would make the RR a strong contender. Taste of Blood (100%) + RtB (50%) + RR (20%) is 170% DR, Iā€™m not missing anything am I? So it would be 170% DR and a bunch of extra flat health, vs 200% DR and just the percent health bonuses from his skills and the Blood if you were to rely on FotF + NN. Yeah, I can see why a RR would be superior.

#57

They certainly threw a lot of percent health regen on him, Maniacal Laughter is absurd. Pain Simulator is Painful is extra potent as it gives +% max health and +DR. He gets ~full heals on kill. Action skill is a full heal. This is a very well-rounded defensive toolkit. If not for FF, he would be my favorite character in any of the games, just for the great design cues they took from past development and character design. I hope they do more of this, the rewarding players for building a certain way, by giving them more of what they want. I like Aureliaā€™s Culling the Herd for the same reason. It is a simple concept, bonus gun damage for landing a crit, but it rewards the player with a strong bonus that synergizes with the stats they would naturally look for, assuming they play in a manner befitting their build. That positive reinforcement works wonders.

#58

Itā€™s actually 195% damage reduction, Taste of Blood (considering 100 bloodlust stacks) only gives +5% after rank 5 so at 10/5 you get 0.75 and you missed the 0.5 from Numbed Nerves at 5/5.

DR = ToB + NN + RtB + RR = 1.95
1 / (1 + DR) = 1 / (1 + 1.95) ā‰… 0.3389830508474576

so approx. 66.10169491525424% ā€œdamage mitigationā€ or whatever it is called.

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#59

Sorry about that, but I was 30 or so posts behind in this threadā€¦ :dukefp:

That and the Firehawkā€™s continuous novas can really hurt the eyes. Plus without fire boosting equipment/skills itā€™s not worth dealing with. Hellborn Kā€™s can get good use out of it, but non-HB ones cannot.

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#60

The melee damage is wasted indeed but I can feel the difference when the dragons are unleashing their elemental attacks. The Necromancer is already one of her best COMs to raid with so MoSS becomes worth - especially if you stack it with the resistance relic.

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