#81

With a Leg. Titan COM, the RR is completely out as it breaks OoBG. It’s either the Evo or the Blockade in this case.

I’m surprised neither of you calculated the Blockade’s DR (or any other DR) as effective health, wouldn’t that make more sense considering…that’s the point this thread was making ?

I’ll do my own maths on this when I get back home tonight, but for those that want to break it further:

Assume:

  • Legendary titan
  • Blood of the ancient 62%
  • AGTTB works at 4%
  • ignore the Evo’S elemental resist and health regen (since they both stop when its depleted)
  • The extra health from the Evo is NOT multiplied by either HtK or the relic
#82

Isn’t that the case for using

effective_health = total_health * (1 + dmg_reduction)

Incase it is, I did this in my post.

I used the same formula for Krieg’s health, I assumed it was the same for Salvador:

total_hp = ((base_hp + shield_hp) * (1 + skills + relic + BAR)) + COM

lvl 72 Psycho
5/5 Feed the Meat: +0.5 health mod
RR: +974638 hp
BotA: +0.62 health mod

base_hp at lvl 72: 80 * 1.13^{72} = 530564.169863

total_hp = ((530564.169863 + 974638) * (1 + 0.5 + 0.62) = 3191028.60011

still lower than what Spunky gets with the same gear and skills on his op8 melee Psycho vid from yootoob (I assume BAR being on): 3539568

but the same value X gets on his video (BAR off and no BotA relic): 2257803,2548

At least with the Psycho, skills, relics and BAR affects shield’s extra health

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#83

I might have misread it, or I underestimated the size of the health bonus from the Evo. :slight_smile:

#84

I listed the effective health in every gear combo :wink:

I also denoted effective shield capacity separately, as it works differently for the Evo than it does for the other 2 shields. You should check out the totals I got, the Blockade is pretty low in stats considering Salvador already has plenty of DR. In his case the flat health bonus is worth far more than the extra 18% DR you’d get from using it instead of a RR. The Blockade starts to pull closer to the values you get with the RR and Evo if you use a Skin of the Ancients, but you said you weren’t looking for shield tanking, so that’s out. Also, the health totals I have here are taken directly from in-game, so they should be about as accurate as it gets.

*edit - I forgot to mention, I tried a Rough Rider and an Evo last night, and they both seemed to be similarly effective. My focus wasn’t on an offensive loadout, so I just used a fire Conference Call + Slagga in Lynchwood, and I didn’t have too much trouble staying alive. Points in Bus That Can’t Slow Down + Incite were extremely helpful, as I did have to make use of cover several times to regen some health back, but there wasn’t much downtime. I had a difficult time killing things with points in Brawn and Rampage, but I don’t play on OP8 very often (I’m usually playing TPS) so that might be normal. Once Keep Firing ramps up, a constant stream of headshots were able to take down normal enemies in ~4-5 seconds. But overall, it seems like a Brawn build works just fine, at least in zones that have some cover available. I did go down a few times trying to adapt to the playstyle, but I never died. It sucks to lose Down Not Out since you have so little defense outside of Gunzerk, but the duration management from Rampage is so crucial. I dunno. And Longbow Singularities with zero fuse time are extremely useful for pulling aggro off to get some health back, I would definitely recommend a Quasar to anyone that wants to mob with this.

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#85

Yeah, tough choice between down not out and Keep Firing. I went with down not out as I already have ridiculous amount of Fire rate with 10/5 L&L and OoBG.

2 things:

Using the Slagga is a waste: the whole point of Brawn builds is that it allows you to use 2 powerful guns instead of having to use a Moxxi. You would have been better off with 2 CCs for example :slight_smile:
Though you did mention that you weren’t going for an aggressive loadout. Killing quickly is also a big help with Brawnzerking. :slight_smile:

Forget the RR entirely, not only is it not better than the Evo, but it also prevents you from using 10/5 OoBG with the Titan COM (shield penalty)

Also, great point about the Singularity.

#86

Gulf why are you testing a Brawn build… With a Grog ? :stuck_out_tongue:

Seems like it defeats the purpose.

#87

I just threw the Slagga on cause I was concerned about my ability to adapt to the playstyle, so I didn’t want to throw weapon swapping into the mix (I don’t play Sal as much, so I always forget how weapon swapping works while Gunzerking is up :/). I don’t want to discount RR for raiding, as damage intake is not always consistent in that context, so OoBG won’t always be up anyway, and the RR uses Inconceivable more reliably. But I agree that for mobbing purposes the Evo is definitely superior.

Have you gotten a chance to test the Evo yet? What guns have you been using for your Brawn runs?

#88

@benzillah How are you calculating the effective health values say for the Rough Rider + Blood of the Ancients? I noticed our results are fairly different and I’m not really that confident in my maths skills.

#89

Even for raiding, making one of your COM skill useless is not a good idea. If you’re fighting a raid and having problems keeping your shield down, you’re doing something very right… Or wrong.

Inconceivable is also very important only if you rely on moneyshot chains for your DPS. Outside of chains, OoBG offers much MUCH more DPS.

RR: OoBG = never, Inconceivable = always
Evo: OoBG = often, Inconceivable = often

Also… Neo vs Evo ?

#90

Because I’m not the expert Sal play you are. :stuck_out_tongue:

#91

For the Rough Rider + Blood of the Ancients, my thought process was:

Max Health = 3,040,508
DR = 110%

3040508 * (1 + 1.1) = 6385067

That should reflect the base plus the additional “health” from adding the damage reduction.

#92

According to the wiki the Neo and Evo have the same max health boost, and I didn’t feel like testing another adaptive shield. Having done the values by hand, I was getting tired of punching numbers into a calculator. :tired_face:

I think the Evo is superior due to the higher shield capacity, but if your intention is that your shield will always be empty, I’m pretty confident it doesn’t matter which one you choose.

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#93

I didn’t get that 110% value for damage res, what were the skills and ranks used here or how exactly did you get to that number?

Here’s how I did mine:
10/5 HtK: 0.4 health mod (40%)
10/5 ItJ: 0.4 dr (40%)
1/1 CaMB: 2.5 dr (250%)
default zerking: 0.5 dr (50%)
RR: 0.2 dr

BotA relic: 0.62 health mod (62%)
RR: +974638hp

DR = ItJ + CaMB + Zerking + RR = 0.4 + 2.5 + 0.5 + 0.2 = 3.6

total_health = (baseHp + shieldHp) * (1 + HtK + BotA) = 3,040,508.3831231347
effective_health = total_health * (1 + DR) = 3,040,508.3831231347 * (1 + 3.6) = 13,986,338.562366419

#95

You can’t consider CAMB in this: it’s 5 to 8 seconds long and only once per gunzerk, not useful for what we’re trying to break down here IMO.

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#96

I noted in my writeup that I would not be counting Come at me Bro, as it is context dependent.

*edit - Ah, I just saw Chuck’s response

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#97

@Chuck80 & @benzillah oh I was thinking the damage reduction from come at me, bro lasted for the duration of gunzerk after activated, good to know.

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#98

Well, at any rate, it is interesting to see in actual numbers just how much CaMB scales up your damage-soaking potential. 14 million hitpoints is absurd!

#99

For a second after getting those values I though the Zerker wasn’t that bad in regards to damage reduction… scratch that, a Psycho built around a hellborn-mania melee can achieve 1.5 damage reduction with skills alone (5/5 in both ToB and NN and a point into RtB) and a total of 1.95 (10/5 ToB, 5/5 NN, RtB and RR, not counting resist relics or the blockade since +health and health modifiers are more useful without shield regen skills).

ps.: most of the damage resist is tied to BxR’ing but still that’s a bit more balanced than what the gunzerker has to endure by staying at so close-ranges while zerking.

#100

And now you all see why I think Juggernaut is a bad skill :wink:

If it was 10% per rank instead of 4% it would be decent/good

Make it 15% per level and OP8 Brawn builds would never have been thought of to be impossible

#101

Well, Sal’s tank healing isn’t dependent on chaining kills to stay topped up. A tank-specced Krieg has to be in melee range to get his health back and he actually has to take out the enemy. It makes for a more frenetic playstyle where you’re always “on,” which isn’t how Brawnzerker plays at all.