#8

No. Since it is non elemental it won’t receive Explosive damage bonuses.

#9

If it’s not a Torgue weapon or doesn’t shoot grenades, then no, it doesn’t get boosted by skills/items that boost explosive damage. For example, a ravager (Torgue shotgun with the Torgue barrel) gets bonus explosive damage, while a Jakobs Quad (Jakobs shotty with the same barrel) would not.

The following get explosive damage bonuses (I may have missed one or two):

  • Torgue projectiles.
  • Grenades.
  • Rockets.

If you want to blow #@^! up, go Torgue!

http://dc536.4shared.com/img/78OfIyCC/s3/Mr-Torgue.jpg

#10

@BookEmDano: Well, nuts. Thanks for the input.

–

@Gulfwulf: The Torgue shotguns are obviously explosive; I was asking about Torgue-barrel assault rifles that aren’t manufactured by Torgue:

-Bandit Rokets
-Dahl Grenadier
-Jakobs Cannon
-Vladof Rocketeer
It’s totally different – Torgue-barrel shotguns cannot be used to self-inflict damage, thereby causing the Absorb Shields to suck it up as rocket ammo.
#11

If it can process Blood Bath, it’ll benefit from explosive damage bonuses.

#12

You’re confusing Grenade Damage bonuses and Explosive Damage bonuses.

#13

Both of you are wrong, compare the two lists.
Granted you aren’t 100% wrong.

Kreig Feed the Meat skill
#14

I think it depends on the gun. And most guns that proc BloodBath also LOVE +grenade damage. ( guns
with splash . More than half of the non-crit DPUH damage for example comes from the splash. Higher the BAR higher the damage gap ).
The bonus to guns is obviously inferior to what BloodBath gives to guns but the the skills are not mutually exclusive .

And +grenade damage applies to bloodsplosion (not tested by me yet), buzz axe bombardier (both components), grenades, …

Level 43 Double Penetrating Hole Puncher used in test

       8438   134970.406 Max     76677.672 Cur    80917.203 Prev     4239.531 Damage
          0   134970.406 Max     71908.336 Cur    76677.672 Prev     4769.336 Damage 
          0   134970.406 Max     67668.805 Cur    71908.336 Prev     4239.531 Damage
         16   134970.406 Max     62899.469 Cur    67668.805 Prev     4769.336 Damage

Triggered 7/5 Fuel The Blood using the axe Throw (without BAB)

       1109   154156.531 Max    124335.938 Cur   128575.469 Prev     4239.531 Damage
          0   154156.531 Max    115784.938 Cur   124335.938 Prev     8551.000 Damage
          0   154156.531 Max    111545.406 Cur   115784.938 Prev     4239.531 Damage
         16   154156.531 Max    102994.406 Cur   111545.406 Prev     8551.000 Damage

I did not video record so the math will tell how many bloodlust stacks I had (0 before the axe kill) but it is already obvious the FtB increases weapon splash damage.

The math:

On card weapon damage (scaled to lvl 43) : 3249.367
BAR : gun damage ~13.5 ; Grenade Damage ~12.5.
5/5 Strip flesh 15% explosive damage

3249.367 * (1 + 0.135) * (1 + 0.15) = 4241.236 // gun’s impact damage
3249.367 * (1 + 0.135) * (1 + 0.125) * (1 + 0.15) = 4771.3 // splash without FtB

8551 / (3249.367 * (1 + 0.135) * (1 + 0.15)) = 2.016 // explosive damage multiplier
(2.016 - 1 - 0.125) / 0.014 = 63.64 // 64 stacks ? seems a bit high (taste the blood 5/5 +30 and FtB 7/5 +14) …

3249.367 * (1 + 0.135) * (1 + 0.125 + 0.014 * 64) * (1 + 0.15) = 8571.538 … // big error

repeat test - this time I payed attention ~40 bloodlust stacks

       4329   154156.531 Max    149917.000 Cur   154156.531 Prev     4239.531 Damage
          0   154156.531 Max    141128.594 Cur   149917.000 Prev     8788.406 Damage
          0   154156.531 Max    136889.063 Cur   141128.594 Prev     4239.531 Damage
         15   154156.531 Max    128100.648 Cur   136889.063 Prev     8788.414 Damage

seems like I’ll have to do it properly with BAR off and strip flesh off to figure it out

3 Likes
#15

BAR OFF // EXPLO OFF

       5860   154156.531 Max     20871.531 Cur    24120.898 Prev     3249.367 Damage
          0   154156.531 Max     17622.164 Cur    20871.531 Prev     3249.367 Damage
          0   154156.531 Max     14372.797 Cur    17622.164 Prev     3249.367 Damage
         15   154156.531 Max     11123.430 Cur    14372.797 Prev     3249.367 Damage
       1438   154156.531 Max    131748.875 Cur   134998.250 Prev     3249.375 Damage 
          0   154156.531 Max    125419.109 Cur   131748.875 Prev     6329.766 Damage 
          0   154156.531 Max    122169.742 Cur   125419.109 Prev     3249.367 Damage 
         15   154156.531 Max    115839.977 Cur   122169.742 Prev     6329.766 Damage

~ 40 bloodlust stacks
6329.766 / 3249.367 = 1.948
0.948 / 40 = 0.0237 % grenade bonus per stack … far from the UIs 0.014 at 7/5
0.948 / 41 = 0.023
0.948 / 39 = 0.0243

No clean numbers … more testing needed, only current conclusion Fuel the Blood might not be so bad.

3249.367 * (1 + 0.135) * (1 + 0.125 + 0.0237 * 40) * (1 + 0.15) = 8792.08 // 8788.414 …hmmm

2 Likes
#16

For it to proc you need a melee kill, if you are a pure gun build you don’t spec into many melee skills and don’t get many melee kills, far less Co op.

They said for melee it’s outstanding, for gun it’s poor.

For gun it’s poor not because the damage but the fact you won’t proc it that often.

5 Likes
#17

I haven’t played much Krieg (lvl 44 atm ) so I have sort of a mental block in regards to his ability to self heal. Damage output no problem … Healing without release the beast …problem … yet checking the high level build thread there are plenty of gun focused build without release the beast so the clearly go around his lack of healing somehow … Thrill of the kill up to lvl 43 did not strike me like it can do the job :slight_smile: … I try to imagine bloodwing fight without release the beast heals and I start shacking :slight_smile: (transfusion grenades ? they take ages to work …)
And if one spends the points for release the beast - hybrid builds seem possible to me since a lot of his melee damage output is build in alleviating the need for dedicated gear/extra melee skills, leaving skill points for gun play …

Higher difficulty probably filter much harshly what works and what doesn’t …

1 Like
#18

Most gun builds are hellborn and heal off dots with elemental empathy or moxxi guns.

4 Likes
#19

“They” huh? :thinking:

Anyway, Derch is right, Ped. FtB is great if you’re going with a melee focused build, but I’d skip it if you’re not.

4 Likes
#20

And to further clarify a somewhat different point. Since this types of guides are destined mostly to new players not necessarily borderlands 2 game mechanics experts. The in-game skill description and the OP doesn’t mention that the ‘grenade damage bonus’ applies in a lot more places than just grenade damage . It can add a significant amount of damage to guns with splash (I will get to the bottom of just how significant amount eventually :slight_smile: ). I remember reading the skill description and my reaction …BAH ! Krieg does toss a lot of grenades, BUT going to the trouble of getting melee kills for that … Meh …

The op doesn’t mention this. The skill’s description on the wiki doesn’t mention it.

The knowledge is (common) present in many places on the forum - but , again , even for me with all those numerical tests …took me a while to realize there was even more to this skill than just grenades, bloodsplosion and BAB.

And a point to buzz axe bombardier. Getting the point switches the axe damage type(s) so it can no longer trigger fuel the blood ! (once it starts benefiting from it). With BAB the thrown axe kills will only trigger blood bath regardless which component gets the kill.

3 Likes
#21

Check out the splash damage guide in the Loot and Weapons section. It’s all there somewhere!

2 Likes
#22

Of course it is. It is in many , many places and I don’t dispute that. I just didn’t make the connection after reading the UI, wiki and the DDD for skills. I’m saying some new players probably wouldn’t make it either without a simple nudge ‘by the way grenade damage also applies to guns with splash check out the awesome splash guide to see which guns have it and how much …’

2 Likes
#23

Still can’t figure fuel the blood actual bonus formula.

10/5 FTB , 100 (hard to tell) stacks UI promises 0.02 * 100 = +2 to grenade multiplier
test result was +2.54 to grenade multiplier, with more than 25% better than what the UI advertises.

But this not a linear bonus…
at 1/5 FTB 100 (hard to tell) stacks the UI promises 0.002 * 100 = + 0.2 to the grenade multiplier and …DELIVERS exactly that …

So the lying happens only at high ranks of the Fuel the blood skill …
On the hard to tell on the number of stacks part … the bonus on kill is applied based # of stacks at the moment of the kill (taste the blood +stacks very likely happens BEFORE FTB bonus ) and doesn’t chance as FTB cools down even as the number of bloodlust stacks decreases/increases in the mean time.

1 Like
#24

When I calculated it to see if I could pull off my old Pete Bloodsplosion in 8 seconds, I found that FtB doesn’t lie to you at all. You get exactly what you signed for, which is 1% to 2.2% per Bloodlust stack. :man_shrugging:

4 Likes
#25

It lies ! (not a huge amount but significant) . Can’t argue with combat log numbers.
How do you calculate bloodsplosion damage numbers ? I can’t make sense of those numbers either .

We should continue this ‘argument’ outside this thread.

1 Like
#26

We can stay here, it’s all valuable information. :smile:

Here’s how I did the calculation. Although here I forgot to consider Pyro Pete’s grenade damage resistance.

4 Likes
#27

Can it be noted here that thrown axes after FTB synergizes with BXB, Turning the thrown axe into a grenade with melee, gun, and splash bonuses? The thrown axes also proc BB, which seems to add like, 3000% damage to the explosive splash and the buzzaxe hit.

Do we have a skill formula for Kreig? It seems Blood Bath calculates before Fuel The Blood, which both are calculated after all Melee bonuses are calculated on an axe throw. Makes sense after the 500+ hours I’ve had with the guy. Man I had to edit this a bunch to make it make sense. Basically the Blood Bath calculations go into Fuel the Blood calculations which are also given the damage calculations from your melee as a base card damage of your throw, in a sense. The way it calculates the damage is so overkill in additive percentages stacking together that it starts to rack up to an equivalent to a x2 multiplier in the percentages when Blood Bath, BXB and FTB are all added in together on an axe throw with your crazy Melee bonuses as a basis for the damage of your axe throws.