Deande Problems and Suggestions

First off, let me start by saying that Deande is my favorite character and to me, she’s the best Battleborn to be made. From her clone to her cinematic ult, it’s all great. But she’s not perfect…far from it. There are a few issues I’d like to address.

First things first is Deande’s hitbox. Out of every melee character in the game, Deande is the hardest person to land hits with (even when you’re really close to a person). If your opponent dances around you, you’re screwed. And even when you finally get in their face, a simple quick melee and you’re back to figuring out how to close the gap on people just to land a hit. I’m sure some people might say that the solution to this is to just throw your fans at them, which is awesome and all, but as a melee character, I should be more comfortable in my close range battles than mid range.

On the topic of her throwing fans, I’d half and half say it’s an issue and also isn’t. I personally feel like Deande has the best ranged option for any melee character in the game. With that being said, I’m pretty sure nearly all Deande users were like WTF when they started throwing her fans. Half of me likes that the fans are that way since their curvy nature can help me snipe some people hiding at corners.

The other half of me is like, nah, I shouldn’t have to do math to figure out the best possible angle to stay at to get the best trajectory for my fans. That other half of me just wishes she’d throw her fans horizontally (like Shane & Aurox’s boomerang) instead. But this is just a suggestion which I’m sure isn’t the brightest idea, but I’m open to other suggestions.

The next thing I’d like to address is Burst Dash. I’m not half and half on this (more like 75-25) but I’ll share both of my sentiments on it. The first time I ever used Burst Dash (without reading about what it did) I thought it would have a bleed effect since she seemed to be swiping at ones throat with that move. When I found out it reduced ones damage AND did 200 damage, I was somewhat satisfied. But then I came upon the trouble of actually landing a hit with it. Sure, you might say “Go for AoE in level 1 then” but I’d be giving up 2 things for that one pick.

a) I would lose the ability to push back people I successfully hit with Burst Dash. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve managed to save a dying teammate who was being chased with a successful hit.

b) I would also lose Double Trouble (it’s basically like Orendi’s Nullify in whatever direction you want (level 4) pick). People seem to sleep on Double Trouble, but it’s highly effective for getting out of situations AND EVEN starting up situations by being able to dash forward with it and catch up to someone running/getting to the back of another person to use your ult on them. Which brings me to my final query about Deande…her ult.

Now, when I saw Deande’s ult happen, I was like “That is amazeballs”. But when I finally used her ult, I found myself upset with a lot of things. I’m piling up a montage of her ult fails and when I’m done with it, I’ll post a video here. For those of you who don’t know, some of the problems with her ult are

a) Pre ult - For one to get the best out of the ult, you cloak, run to the side of the person and then bam, ult. Or if you’re lucky enough to find a bunch of people gathered in one spot, you cloak, find a way to get behind them and stun them. The only problem is, the minute you begin to do your ult, you’re uncloaked. Now, I’m not too upset with this, but I am upset with the fact that, unlike Oscar Mike, there isn’t an option on my helix/mutation for me to be able to remain cloaked while my ult is happening.

b) Startup time - I’m half and half about this since there are moments where I don’t mind that 3 second wait…simply because I’m waiting at the corner of the wall for someone to over commit so I can catch them and have my teammates finish the job. But I also hate that people who see me can just sprint away and I’d lose the kill AND have to wait for 10 seconds to be able to use the ult again (or 70 seconds if I get stunned by anything or even knocked up by a thrall). I suggest that one should be able to initiate the ult, and if someone falls into the field of vision, you press triangle (PS4 user here) to latch on to them, or at the end of the 3 seconds, you catch/miss whoever’s in the ult.

c) Ult Catch - On the chance that your ult catches someone or something, you actually find yourself praying it’s the former and not the latter. I once used my ultimate and caught a turret, 3 minions, and my target. Safe to say, nothing died in the ult. I’m guessing the ability to catch a thing in the ult exists because of story mode, where you might want to take on a bulwark or minion bot, but really, in PvP, I have never seen any Deande user ever think “Hmm, these minions have low health, let me stun them and hope my team takes them out”. Or in the event you’re unlucky like me, you find yourself using your ult on a shock turret, only for it to live, shock you while you come out of the animation and probably do more damage to you than it took from you. Which brings me to another point about the ultimate

d) During the ult - Yeah the ult looks amazing to see, but it really makes no sense for my target to recover from my ultimate before I do. Neither does it make that when I catch someone in my ult, if an Oscar Mike or Thorn spotted where I was, they just do AoE on my spot and I die mid ult. This makes no sense since I’m not even on the ground And with this, I’ll address my final point about the ultimate

e) Ult Damage - I probably shouldn’t have named this “Ult damage” but I couldn’t think of a better name for it since frankly, the damage the ult does is slightly abysmal. 500 damage is basically 2.5 Burst Dash’s. Or 2 of Orendi’s Shadowfire Pillar (level 4 helix) minus 50. And you know what’s sad about the Orendi comparison? If 3 people were caught in both pillars, they’re all taking 450 damage but if 3 people are caught in Deande’s ULTIMATE ABILITY they’re taking roughly 167 each.

The ult needs a lot of work, and even if the damage isn’t slightly buffed, there shouldn’t be a punishment (cus that’s what it honestly feels like) for catching multiple people in the ult. I shouldn’t lose 20% of my full damage potential for every extra person/thing I catch in the ult. I suggest that that 20% be 10% so if I somehow magically stun the whole team, instead of everyone losing 100 HP, they’d lose 250. There’s no other character in this game whose ult loses its punch because multiple people are in it, so if this could be fixed, it’d be highly appreciated.

I really do sympathize with my fellow Deande users who go through all these problems aforementioned. It’s hard to be the blade in their back and the whisper in their ear when your blade doesn’t feel sharp enough, and your voice isn’t loud enough to be considered a whisper.

I’ll appreciate suggestions or your frustrations as well.

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We can add that we can’t use her passive with the ult as the passive last 3 sec and the ult only deal dmg after 3sec… it would be better if the passive bonus dmg apply when you use the ult, not when you deal dmg

WHen i see a deande preparing an ultimate and i can’t run far enough i just go in my mobs wave as she won’t deal any damage if she catch multiple enemies. And like you i feel like it’s a punishment for me to hit more than one player with my ult.

And i agree with you the push back on burst dash counter deande herself -__- if you hit them when they jump they will be push too far for you to follow them… like you i saved enemies too many times with burst dash because you can’t always attack from behind

I agree with you on that. But then again, if we’re being completely fair, the time it takes to get out of your clone, get into position THEN start prepping for your ult, 3 seconds have come and gone. But it’ll have been really nice to have a little bonus damage while doing the ult.

And you’re really smart for running into the mobs. I just run up and melee her or stun or knockup and she’s done.

I actually don’t have a problem with her ult. With a skill damage increase gear, it does 63-75 dmg per hit for me. I usually use it a s a finisher when people don’t see me and are low health. The only problem I have with it is the time it takes to do it. She just does dance for an hour until she finally moves

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I understand you spec for skill damage, which can be nice and helpful, however, it still doesn’t change the fact that one feels somewhat punished for using their ult on multiple people since it reduces its total damage output. I use the ult to finish people too.

Honestly I feel like she’s in a good place, im a deande player as well, her ultimate isn’t a damage dealer it’s a setup/finisher. Also when you have the level three mutation,that’s your damage if your skilled enough and for the most part if noone is around to save your target you will kill them. I don’t truly understand your gripe on mid range combat, when she has the option with her basic kit,no skill. Rath players(I play Rath too) only have skills for mid range even his strong attack, which is the only attack in his kit with some form of range is still close quarters combat. Now her level one augmentation choice is purely based on skill or ease, if you want to push back targets and mitigate their damage which is a debuff and essentially a short term escape, it should require some skill or at least thought. If you want to take out wave of minions or confidently burst damage your target the other helix option is available so you can run in and fire off R1(Im On ps4 too), throw out a clone and let her do the dirty work, go for clone damage it will help considerably. Something that i also believe most deande players sleep on is weakened damage as an assassin class character mostly all of your foes are weakened. Along with a level 10 helix choice of a clone on activation of your ult, I get away everytime while dealing damage,people don’t notice the red eyes.

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I completely agree with you, I feel like her ultimate is better used as a finisher and not for all out offense. But imo like emmanuel said in the original post, theres something odd about the fact that the enemies recover from the ultimate before you can even regain control of deande. It’s like she does the ultimate, and then you yourself get stunned for doing so and she gets attacked. I think there should be a brief moment of invulnerability while she’s mid ultimate (not charging it up cause that would be op) but just while she’s executing it, considering you can’t move with her regardless.

Her ultimate still needs work either ways. It’s no fair that I’ll stun people and be the last one to get out of the animation. Even Kelvin gets out of sublimate before people get out of his stun so why?
You also mention her uppercut juggle which is cool and I love it, however, the melee hitbox is ridiculous. It’s hard to land hits with it unless you’re up close and personal, and even then, all one has to do is melee you and they’re free. Try playing against a Ghalt who knows this and see how frustrating it is to use your melee ability.
My gripe with her fans really isn’t a gripe per se. Like I said, I’m 50/50 on it, but half of me wishes that her fans could be thrown the way Shane & Aurox’s boomerang is thrown, horizontally, not vertically, making it easier to aim/land hits with. But I’m half and half on it as I said earlier.
But there’s a little correction I’d like to make, most of your foes aren’t weakened. When you weaken them with Burst Dash, THEN, you get 23% extra damage. Whereas you could just consistently have 18% damage if you choose not to go with it which is why I don’t pick that.

Isn’t 23 better than 18. It’s learning how to focus the right target. 23% damage on a targets with 99% health will kill faster than 18% on a target with 100%. I do understand the want for iframes during the ult but she is an advanced battleborn so she is a high risk high reward character. It comes with territory if you don’t set up adequately you will be punished.

And you’re combo should start with burst dash it is clearly a combo initiator, if we are talking future buffs u have to consider the character meta not just the playstyle of most deandes you see.

But you forget that you only get that 23% damage for the duration of that one Burst Dash you manage to land, however, you get a permanent 18% damage for melee damage. Think about it this way, melee has no cooldown, but Burst Dash does, so even when you land burst dash, you have until the duration of their weakened state to land hits to gain your extra 23% damage. But if you picked the other one, whether your Burst Dash lands or not, you would still be doing 18% more damage.
To each their own.

This is the single biggest issue affecting Deande as a character. I’ve been preaching this for weeks.

It is most noticable on small and giant enemy types, and once you;re aware of it the loss of DPS is obvious.

Ya I see your concern, I just don’t run into this problem, I burst dash with intent on a kill or the augment for minion clear. It’s kind of a useless skill otherwise. The 23% is far more effective 18% always on is a crutch I think u may be relying on, no disrespect. It makes sense to burst dash >combo >holotwin. Initiate with burst dash end with holotwin you will kill far more. With that said I do agree the “normal” burst dash does have a finicky hit box, I went clean through a Montana right in front of me before.

Deande was my second love (and Mastery) after Rath. I actually find her to be nearly perfect as a character and 100% perfect for my play style, I have gone 14-0 twice with her and manages to juggle a Montana to death twice with the 3rd Helix Mutation (it was beautiful), but as I said NEARLY perfect.

Before I go any further I would like to clarify what I mean by perfect: Not overpowered, not underpowered, right where she should be for the life of the game.

Now onto what she needs, her Ult is one of the only two things I feel needs changing. I don’t mind the lack of damage so much, especially when playing with friends, because when setting up I just give a shoutout to whoever is near me that b*tches are about to get stunned and then whoever I hit is as good as dead. However I feel that if for whatever reason they don’t die, Deande should not suffer as a result and be stunned for as long as she is after (or at all really). That is my only real gripe with it, it would also be nice to see her have the ability to remain cloaked while setting up her Ult or have a much shorter time before the ult is used after hitting the button but both of those could end up being a bit OP.

Secondly (and lastly) is her burst dash. It’s damage is horrible, it’s range is ok at best and the debuff is cool but not usually super useful. I have never gone out of my way to use it to debuff an enemy, to save an ally? Sure. To push an enemy into my allies while they try to escape? Pretty much exclusively save the attack for this. I’d like to see burst dash have some kind of buff, a few people have mentioned adding bleed damage which I love but I would take a simple damage buff.

Anything beyond those two points added to Deande would likely make her truly OP. Using her now is difficult, but if you use her right, extremely rewarding and can rack up kills if you juggle well.

3 Likes

I think you make some valid points but I think Deande is 90% fine and she’s in a pretty good place. She’s difficult to play, but she’s supposed to be. She is one of those characters that rewards players for smart tactics and good skills. I think increasing any damage would make her too OP. She suits my playstyle and I do really well with her generally speaking.

I agree the Ult needs a little work, though. The only thing I would change is the fact the Ult stops me for so long. It basically stuns you for 3 seconds at the start and a bit at the end. One of those has to go, probably the end one. You can never use it without cloaking first, you usually need a team-mate, and there’s an off chance people will just use it to whale on you because it takes so long to get out of, since of course you won’t be able to kill everyone you stun. As for the damage? I think it’s fine. It’s a 5 person stun. Adding damage to it would make it too powerful. As others do I often use it on someone as a finisher, with team-mates there, however I do agree that it should be tweaked, because I find myself seldom using it at all because of the drawbacks. I guess it’s good I need to use it strategically, but if for example if I get caught out with all skills on cooldown 1v1, I can’t even rely on my Ult to get me out of the skirmish because it’ll actually benefit my enemy, and usually result in my death if I use it. That kind of sucks.

As for her fans, I don’t have any difficulties hitting targets with them, and once you get used to the vertical throw it’s fine. I actually really like her fan throw and I think it’s working pretty well. A ranged distance helix upgrade would be awesome though. I will conceded her melee attack is weak-- it does take too long to start swinging, and the hit box is odd. I think it should be faster to swap between that and fan throw, because that’s kind of her point. I also think Roguelike (helix 5) is silly–good luck hitting anyone in the back in this game, especially with the delay in swinging. And what constitutes the ‘back’ of a minion or turret? It’s useless on those. It should just be a 3 second damage increase for melee, maybe 20% instead.

I agree burst dash is really hard to hit with, I find myself picking the AOE to guarantee a hit, and think she suffers for not having the clone dash. I think the forward burst dash should have a wider berth given she’s swinging outwards like that, and it’s so hard to hit anyone with it-- I often just destroy my own shield and hit nobody if I pick Calculate Risk, so I never pick it any more. I’ve had no little to no success with it at all. Perhaps I just suck at it, but Calculate Risk should do way more damage, personally speaking. As it is I don’t find it worth picking.

As for stunning minions, absolutely I do. I stun stuff in Meltdown to stop it from being sacrificed, as well as getting my clone out there with Dopplegangup.

That said, these are super minor things and she’s easily my best character, and the one I get killed with the least (barring Reyna) she’s a great counter to a lot of characters, and what she lacks in her Ult usability she makes up with with her clone, which is all kinds of awesome. I struggle with KTD in general (lag, skill) but I do pretty good as Deande compared to other characters like Orendi, Thorn and Melka, and her minion kill is way higher than one would think. A good Deande can make the team. I think she’s pretty great.

2 Likes

I appreciate you for taking the time to read up on my whole post and give your feedback. In terms of some of the things you said, I’ll explain why I said them.

Deande is definitely near perfect in a way to me cus she is a complex character, however, even though I understand she’s meant to be a “high risk high reward” character, more times than not, the risks outweigh the rewards.

The only damage that I ask that be increased or tweaked, is her ult damage, as it is the only ult I know in the game that loses 20% of its total damage output per person in the ult. I can see how it’ll seem OP if her damage got buffed, but even you concede that many times, the ult can’t save you in a 1v1 skirmish. Which is why I said, they either buff it a bit, or reduce that damage loss per person to 10% so when I stun 5 people, I’m doing 250 damage, not 100.

And being completely honest, how many times do we even get to stun 5 people? Very rarely do I ever get a game where the whole team is huddled in one spot. Very very rarely does that ever happen.

I honestly think that instead of a weaken attack, a bleed effect might have been better. One that chips like 50 HP over 3 seconds in addition to the 200 damage.

I hate choosing calculated risk, unless my opponents come off being very easy. Because I leave myself in a bad position without a shield, and Deande being as squishy as she is, really needs that shield.

On your final quote, I’d actually like to say that even though a good Deande can do well on a team, she can’t necessarily do great on a bad team. I’m basically trying to say, the better your team is doing, the better Deande can flourish.

Regarding her burst dash, I feel like they should make it so you can push it and she can hold it so you can actually AIM it. I hate how its a press and go ability. Its should be like thorns abilities! Press and aim it where you want it to go and then press it again to do it. Furthermore, buff her helix options! Her movement speed options are not worth it. They should be increased to 6 seconds instead of 3. Also there is a level (Not sure which) where it gives you two options for her burst dash, one is a life steal but sacrifices 50% damage and the other removes your shield for damage. Both of those options are garbage and need to be replaced. Maybe a helix that increases her attack speed by 20% and the other can be a life steal without sacrificing the damage?

Last complaint is her movement speed is literally the slowest in the game while she is attacking. Most characters back walk is faster then her forward walk and that not okay.

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Completely agree with you on the speed part. I always felt it was kind of weird that she’s supposed to be some super assassin but is one of the slowest characters I’ve seen.

“The better your team is doing, the better Deande can flourish.”

This is possibly the single biggest truth Battleborn has.

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I agree with many of you guys. The ultimate needs a slight change. Sucks that 1. You are the last one to leave the animation and 2. If an enemy has a team-mate around, they can hit you even though you aren’t even on the ground during Ult.

That would be amazing if the burst damage had a bleeding affect. You can upgrade the burst damage through helix and the more shield you have, the more damage it will do w/ proper helix selection (but who wants to gear themselves to more shield?). So the options are there, a bleed affect would be amazing though, a nice minor buff/improvement.

Her burst dash aim takes some time to get used to and requires some skill. Let’s not make it noob friendly…I think it’s fine… There is also a helix that extends the range. I know some people say to initiate with it but I don’t because you push the guy back when you do, lose seconds from un-cloaking if you were and you give up your element of surprise. I rather attack first and before they recognize I’m there, they are getting juggled. I use the burst dash as a finisher and saving teammates. So I think the dash animation itself is fine.

Quick tip… I use this a lot… Before using burst dash, tap jump back to give some space then dash. You have better aim.