Deande vs Shayne

They both have stealth, they have melee, and range damage. Shayne has more shields and damage reduction (now). Shayne gets an intense slow at level 2. Shayne has more consistent ranged attacks. Shayne can get an overshields from fetch. Shayne has greater movement speed. So from my perspective it seems like a really good Shayne could out do a really good Deande. I just want to get people’s thoughts on it because if a really good Shayne is truly worse than a really good Deande player then I guess I’ll have to leave it there. (Even though I’ll always want a buff to her hitboxes and her movement speed.)

Well, I remember playing a game of Faceoff with a friend (Just me, him, and one other person were playing for practice), and I was able to kill him a few times as Deande (they were playing S&A). It is situational though, since I usually go skill damage on Deande and can melt a lot of things with surprise Burst Dash or Ult from stealth. I was also able to avoid getting killed by him while around 100hp by using the cloak, quick melee dash, and running around things, but I’ll just say that if the friend I had on my team didn’t come by and distract him, I would’ve most likely died.

I’m not one to say that one character is better than another. Now I’m not much of a Shayne player. Haven’t even tried her yet after the patch. But if what you say is true, then yes it seems like Shayne has a better kit than Deande.

Maybe a good Shayne player is more of a problem than a good Deande player. However there is one caveat to this, especially for me. I play Deande because i like playing Deande, not because she is better than someone else, or ridiculously OP, or some other performance based reason.

Also i’ve seen only one really good Shayne in MM. Most of them just die to me due to their large hitbox.

But Deande as a burst assassin can dish much more damage than shayne. Besides, the only thing they have in common is stealth and they have very different roles in a team so it is kind of hard for me to see where is the comparison coming from.

Deande has the highest burst damage in the game without ult. When I say burst, I mean damage in one second. No one can beat Deande’s

Deande also has life steal, and a much more powerful ULT. I would say in a 1v1 with equally skilled players Deande would win most of the time. But, each has a good escape so in a real match, it would probably be a lot of stale mates. I am biased towards Deande though, so don’t listen to me.

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I don’t think the two are comparable, as they fill different roles. They’re similar no doubt, but one is a shield tank while the other is a burst assassin.


Thorn Volley Crit :slight_smile:

I think Deande’s easier to land and can hit several enemies compared to thorn’s single target

I still don’t think even Volley can compare, although it is close.

That title actually goes to Kleese. And even with Nockout Thorn’s Volley doesn’t quiet beat Burst Dash. I assume Kleese is the strongest, although anyone can suggest a competitor to try and match my claim. :stuck_out_tongue:

Disclaimer: I’m excluding any superfluous stuff like the "All-For-One Shield Array, Lorrian Skill Spike, Codex Fragment, ect… Only what is more or less a reliable variable on a solo target, while solo. And IDK if this formula is 100% correct.

Kleese lvl 10

  • Base Energy Mortar - 6 mortars at 36 damage
  • Overloaded Mortars - +100% shield as damage
  • Expanded Mortar capacity - +4 mortars
  • Bouncing Balls of Death - +100% for every bounce, 3 bounces/explosions
  • Brains Before Brawn - +150 shield
  • Base shield - 600 shield
  • Purple Jennerit shield - +140 shield and 5.46% skill damage
  • Purple LLC skill damage - +9.1% skill damage and +98 shield
  • Conditionals
  • +50% damage on shields
  • Critical - N/A except vs Boss ISIC +200%
  • Tertiary gear
    * PvP/ISIC - Purple LLC attack damage - +98 shield
    * PvE - Aria’s Encore At 100 OPS - +5.46% and +20% skill damage


[((10 x 36)+(1x(600+150+140+98+98))) x ((1.091)x(1.0546)x(1.0546)x(1.2)) x (1.5) x (3)] x (3) =

  • PvP
  • vs Health - 4992 (w/out bounce 1664 if all 10 connect)
  • vs Shield - 7488
  • PvE
  • vs Health - 5889 (w/out bounce 1963 if all 10 connect)
  • vs Shiled - 8834
  • vs ISIC - 14976

This may not be the absolute max, but I’m satisfied with this. And the formula may be wrong, the UI incorrect, # of bounces incorrect, and you have to literally be touching Kleese for all mortars to connect and bounce their maximum bounces between Kleese’s hit box and yours. So they’re big numbers, but contingent on a lot of factors. Although a bounce or 2 on health still beats Deande’s crit.

Deande lvl 10

  • Base Burst Dash - 280 damage
  • The Element of Surprise - +25% damage amp
  • Calculated Risk - +50% shield as damage
  • Burst Brawler - +15% Burst Dash Damage
  • The Culling - +23% damage amp on weakened enemies
  • Base shield - 300 shield
  • Purple Jennerit shield - +140 shield and 5.46% skill damage
  • Purple LLC skill damage - +9.1% skill damage and +98 shield
  • Purple LLC attack speed - +98 shield
  • Conditionals
  • PvP
    • Critical - +50%
  • PvE
    • Critical - +200%


[((280)+(0.5x(300+140+98+98))) x ((1.091)x(1.0546)) x (1.25) x (1.15) x (1.23) x (1.5) x (3)] =

  • PvP
  • non Critical - 1217
  • Critical - 1826
  • PvE
  • non Critical - 1217
  • Critical - 3651

And please don’t blow this out of proportion or get shocked by the numbers. Neither of them need to be nerfed and I hope this post doesn’t influence anyone’s opinion on that matter. I love sharing stuff like this, but this community makes me very hesitant at times.


Wow, extremely impressive. Math and colors, my two favorite things! Very interesting as well. I had no idea he could deal THAT much. If we split that into each individual hit though, as I specified “damage in a second”, would Kleese still win? I have no idea and you appear to know very well what you speak of. And although they’re impressive, you sacrifice other good helices and gear to achieve very risky damage. So I also hope no one freaks out over this


Like you said I more or less considered Energy Mortars’ deployment time to be about a second for the sake of the comparison. But if you want the damage of one mortar with no bounce, then it’s only 166 damage on PvP health. No where near Deande’s 1217.

So in one hit Deande wins, but in one second Kleese wins. Unless I misread your post.

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No you’d be correct. Realistically, even if it was more than a second, you could choose the blanket mortars option, los the bounce, and it would likely still win.

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Let’s just all agree that no one should ever go near a Kleese unless he’s low on health/shields and you’re invisible, and he’s not inside a rift network.


Or if you’re Whiskey Foxtrot with Napalm. Then you can do just fine.

Well… Shane is a tank and deande an assasin

In my test I concluded ‘Bouncing Balls of Death’ only bounces 3 times. They explode each bounce, and even though the mortars still exist after the third bounce I never saw them explode again. So only 3 instances of damage per mortar. I’ll edit my original post.

It was a very crude test, so take it as you may.

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Well that’s fine. I respect everyone’s thoughts on the matter. Like Slif_One said, they’re similar in ways, but I felt that, with Shayne’s new buff, she could shut down enemies easier in early levels (But she’s a “tank”). I get that their playstyles are fairly different. I just wanted to know which had a greater edge to see if they could even that out. I wasn’t trying to say that one should be played over another because they’re “better”. It’s all about what character makes you happy. Also this game has extreme diversity in terms of “roles” (Galilea being the greatest example) You can get mowed down by aggressive supports in this game, so I don’t think my initial question is invalid. This isn’t a black and white RPG. Thanks for replying!