Dear BL3 Community

Okay community… You need to stop. There is a problem I have been noticing here. A huge disconnect between the casual and the more hardcore players, which is becoming a giant problem. What could I be talking about?

Mayhem 10:
NO 90% of the weapons ARE NOT useless in M10. Please, for the love of gaming, stop listening to the hardcore gamers, especially most the YouTubers. The whole reason people are saying things like this are because they are used to having builds, glitches, combinations, that allow them to virtually one shot most enemies, or kill an enemy in under a clip of ammo. Mayhem 10 did increase the health, shields, and armor of everything. With that it means that things are SUPPOSED to be tougher to kill. What M10 did was require more anointments. BUT that doesn’t mean that weapons are useless. That 90% of weapons being useless is the biggest bullcrap ever. Just because you aren’t one shotting enemies, you aren’t killing them by staring at them, doesn’t make a gun bad. Take the amount of guns that were actually worthless before Mayhem 2.0, Bitch, Devoted, Long Musket, Devil’s Foursome (sure some people might find these good, but I tend to never see them used) to name a fear are still useless. But the amount of “useless” weapons in M10 isn’t randomly increased to 90%. So far from my experience, only a handful got weaker and it might take a bit longer, but these guns took some time in old M4 as well. Not useless, but might take a clip or so to get the job done. Anointments making them clearly stronger. Which is Key to M10. Yes, the M6+ and Cartel weapons are actually VERY strong, like Lob strong. But that doesn’t mean other guns are worthless. The Lob has been in the game and could melt any boss on any character without even caring about the anointment on it. I had a slide damage one on Zane and would use antifreeze, slide past a group of enemies, and they’d explode in one hit. That is the problem. M10 REDUCED the chances of that happening, the Lob is still VERY powerful and I found one at M8 that I used to kill things on M10 until I found a M10 one. That how “broken” the Lob is. See the hardcore gamers are confusing Broken with good. The M6+ and the Cartel weapons are BROKEN, not good, BROKEN. The damage is crazy, one is legit called the OPQ, OP, as in OVER POWERED.

So Community, for the LOVE of ALL gaming. STOP TELLING THE CASUAL PLAYERS THAT 90% OF THE WEAPONS ARE USELESS. It is so untrue that it has been pissing me off. I’ve been running through M10 using all my old guns, with ease, and not having issues at all. I do like some of the new guns, but I ONLY use those for non-stop boss farming so I can do it quick because of how broken they are. The M6+ and the Cartel weapons are the equivalent to the original one ammo ION CANNON. The gun that legit would one shot anything on M4 with any character. It still cane, but the hard core gamers don’t use it as much literally just because it consumes 6 ammo now. So Casual players, I urge you to TEST weapons out before you let the others judge them for you. Sure some people like the whole, one shot being OP god in games, but for those of you who like diversity than just go out and test guns. I am tired of seeing YouTubers that the community looks up to getting TERRIBLE information about weapons and their usefulness. One said the Maggie was “okay” but not good anymore. I use the Maggie on my Fl4k for every build I do. It destroys still, just need to find the right anointment. On Fl4k the best ones I personally have found are the 100% bonus damage to those hit by Rakk Attack, and the Consecutive Hits. Just find your weapons, find your build, find your anoints. Stop letting the harder players dominate your choices and your perspective of the game.


actually, we are telling the devs
everyone is telling them, casual and hardcore players
because they are


They aren’t. The M6+ and Cartel weapons are OVER POWERED. That doesn’t mean the other weapons are useless in anyway. Some are, a lot of them original guns were gimmicks, heck even the Iceburger is a gimmick. But just because a select few weapons are OP, doesn’t make the others useless. If that was the case, if how ALL these YouTubers and hardcore players are saying that these OP guns are the only guns worth it. Than before Mayhem 2.0, these same people would have been saying that the ION CANNON and the Lob were the only usable guns and that no other guns are worth using. Because both those weapons are very OP. Y’all be confusing OP with standard. Again, I am not having a single issue using the old guns, they are all still very strong. Y’all are confusing M10 life increases with weapons getting weaker. That is your issue.


i too think that some new weapons are too strong
but also most old weapons are too weak
actually the middleground is very small


Like what? Give me examples. Because I still use the same old guns I used in Mayhem 4. Breath of the Dying, Maggie, Garcia, Tunguska, Kyb’s Worth, Tigg’s Boom, Oldridian, Gatling Gun, Night Hawkin, Lucian’s Call, Rowan’s Call, Soul Render, Carrier, Freeman, Linoge, Nemesis, Clairvoyance, Love Drill, Companion, One Pump Chump, Insider, ION LASER, Krakatoa, Anarchy, FlamaDiddle, Juliet’s Dazzle, Laser-sploder, Moonfire, Roisen’s Thorns, Hellfire, Hive, Nuken, Shocker. These are all the guns I got in M10, with anointments I like, and they all still shred. These are all guns I got before M10 was even a thing, and used them a lot. Not to mention the OP guns, Brainstormer, Recursion, Lob, ION CANNON. Between these, I see WAY less than 90% that was useless. I understand its an exaggeration, but there are also guns I have yet to get with my anointments that I have’t tried but really want to, just haven’t had the chance to go grab them yet. So far the guns I didn’t use before because I wasn’t a fan of, are the ones I still haven’t used. EXCEPT for the Bitch. I got a Bitch with the 50% health get 150% rads, put it on my Zane, and was actually able to kill something before I had to reload which I have struggled with doing. Bitch was one of my old fav SMGs, I will never give up on it, but right now I have’t found a good use for it on my Fl4k. Now again, give me examples of the guns that AREN’T useful anymore. Because the WORSE I have dealt with, with any of these, is reloading. Which is normal, because I don’t play Moze.


ok, Lemme give you an example of what I think is generally meant.

I used to run a Kyb’s Worth. Was an excellent SMG. Did really nice things including the healing circles. Zane with a copy of it on a digi clone could pretty much stand back and let the clone kill the room if he wanted to.

M10 shows up. Now, on lower mayhem levels the Kyb can still do some nice things. But just talking solo M10 here for the moment. I pull out my M10 Kyb and have to use 5 clips to take out an enemy. Takes maybe 20 to 30 seconds. I pull out the new M10 Kaoson and I can kill the enemy with maybe 1 clip in 5 seconds. Depends on the enemy of course.

While the Kyb CAN be useful and CAN be used to kill the enemies I end up spending tons of time running back for ammo or getting ganked by group mobs because I cant kill them fast enough or get the healing circles to stay often enough.

So no, it is not completely useless but it certainly is inconvenient and time consuming as well as dangerous for my poor VH’s life.

I can nail two boards togather by using a rock to hammer with or I can use the best tool available for the job. Is the rock useless, no, but why would you choose to use it unless you had to?


we would probably just need like…the double or triple amount of ammo for every weapon type now^^

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This is what I am saying. You are all confusing OP weapons with the standard while the enemies got extremely increased health. Also, man, your issue is Zane. Kyb’s Worth with Rakk Attack bonus damage is maybe 2 clips. Zane right now is the weakest, so maybe that is why? I do know a lot of people use Zane over the others, but honestly he has fallen off due to the fact all his bonus gun damage is between like 4 perks, one being based on moving fast like Sonic.

I have a Lethal Kaoson with the Rakk Attack Bonus damage, and I usually only switch to it when I am in FFYL, or some bosses. Other than that I have been using my Soul Render which is maybe 2 clips for some badasses. Like yes I understand the new weapons are Broken as hell. But a lot of people HATE being forced to use weapons. It is kind of the reason BL2 became garbage after TVHM, because the farther into UVHM or OP levels you went, the less choices you got for you build and equipment. With everyone saying anything but the M6+ and Cartel weapons are useless, it puts that mind set into a lot of people. I’ve seen people saying “I am struggling with mayhem, help.” Everyone’s go to has been, “Get and OPQ and Yellowcake.” You aren’t wrong, those did make doing anything so easy it was sad. Then shortly after that, those very people started asking what else they could use because it was getting boring, and EVERYONE started saying “no”. A lot of YouTubers sit and go, you have to have these guns, only these guns, everything else is worthless, gotta do this, gotta do that. Meanwhile I haven’t touched those weapons since like M7-8 and I’ve been doing fine. Yes, I have a Sand Hawk and a Yellowcake on my Fl4k. I only use both for farming bosses because I get tired of farming easily, so this allows me to keep farming without getting exhausted. I’ve always hated farming in any game. I’ve used the Kaoson, and I love the Monarch, but I don’t really use them. I think I haven’t used the Monarch since my M8 one that had Fade Away bonus, and even now my new fade away build has no room for it. They are BROKEN, but they shouldn’t be considered the only usable guns. Also who CARES if you need to go back and get ammo? I honestly have yet to have an issue, same with Amara, especially Moze. But Zane, yes. Zane has been a character I’ve always had to buy ammo on even in old M4. I used to main that man, but this update has made Zane so weak compared to the others. So I am starting to wonder if all these people having issues are Zane mains like you just said. Your Zane needs to use 5 clips on Kyb’s Worth now, my Fl4k uses maybe 2. I was using an Attack Command Life steal on my Fl4k for awhile, even using it against Wotan. Still never used more than 3 clips to kill someone that wasn’t a badass.

Hell my Fl4k even has a non-scaled Skullmasher that has helped me a few times.

ConHits Anarchy on Fl4k can do 20-30M as a constant number as well, not just a sometimes number. Which are usually one-shots.

You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried!, It’s NOT the hard core gamers who are saying 90% of all weapons are useless, it’s us casuals who are saying that, because we represent the majority of players and we are the ones MOST affected by the ludicrous enemy and gun scaling in Mayhem 10, and we are the ones who KNOW that 90% of all weapons don’t work anymore


You asked for examples of what was meant. Feel free to play the way you wish and yes, I do still use some of the old guns, but if it takes me two to five times as long to kill one mob then I begin to find that boring in MY playstyle.

As for zane, he is one of my least played, again, I was just stating an example for you like you asked.

Most people are looking for the most efficient killing method and, in that case, the old guns simply are NOT the most efficient. Therfore they are useless for what that player is looking for.

Now, if someone asks me for a playstyle that takes longer to kill the mobs or makes them go back for more ammo I will gladly suggest some weapons that I thought had cool effects and were fun to play with. Strangely though, no one ever asks me for that sort of build out.

I am not trying to rag on you or your playstyle but even you stated when it really counts you would pull out the Kaoson for that FFYL kill. They are simply better at getting the killing done. They may not be the most fun to use but they are the best tool at killing.


Than I guess you kind of missed the point of the Mayhem levels in 2.0. Because unloading more ammo was kind of the point, to make the gamer harder like everyone asked. Also I forgot to mention that the Kaoson only gets me out of FFYL when Rakk Attack has hit someone. Other than that I kind of hate the gun. And like I said I understand your point of views completely. I am just saying that when people ask about M10, stop calling guns useless, and start calling the other guns OP. Again, one is LITERALLY called the OPQ, meaning overpowered Q-system. OverPowered. The point of that gun. Its the wording that is annoying because it is making people assume they have no options.


I’ve only see people like Joltz, KillerSix, and other big name Borderlands YouTubers/Streamers mention these things. The ONLY people who doesn’t open their videos with saying something along the lines of everything being useless so far has been Moxsy. I don’t watch many of any of their videos (and sort of hate Joltz and KillerSix because their old BL2 videos annoyed the hell out of me). But looking for ideas for new builds these guys always come up, and all of them say the same things. Except Moxsy who RECOMMENDS to get those weapons, but never says they are NEEDED. These are people who I consider Hard Core.

If you, as a casual, also believe this than maybe you are too casual of a player where you don’t want to dig into your own game that much. I am in the middle ground. I like to have fun, and I’ve tried the stupid OP builds but get bored because too much set up/it being too easy just bored me. I like a challenge but don’t like being god. So I’ve toyed with things, and watched a lot of the more hard core people who dig deeper into every little detail of how things work and synergize, to help me understand my builds better. But I’ve never sat around going “Wow, I can’t do this without the OPQ.” Actually the opposite happened, I got so tired of relying on the OPQ that I began to hunt down other weapons and eventually learned that just because the OPQ is (in Fl4k’s hands) one shotting everything, doesn’t mean its the only usable gun. I replaced my OPQ with the Gatling Gun pretty quickly, and used that for a long time until I started to change my build up. Like, its stupid strong like the name says, but its not needed. If you are so causal that you aren’t willing to do some testing, than honestly why are you even trying Mayhem levels?

The ONLY thing Mayhem 2.0 ruined was Action Skill based builds, and Amara’s Melee build. People who say otherwise honestly are just whining, like seriously M10 isn’t as bad as everyone is making it out to be. It’s basically like playing Moxxxi’s DLC from BL1 (oh wait legit half the modifiers for Mayhem levels are directly pulled from that DLC, heck even the increased health and shields is pulled from that DLC, just higher values).

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So basically you are just annoyed at the semantics?

No, I understand the point of the Mayhem levels, I know that not everyone will be able to play on M10 just like not everyone could run OP8 in BL2.

But people aren’t asking me for gimped buildout choices. People are asking for best way to do X. Best in slot for such and such. If they want the best way, it is to use the best tool, be it an Anarchy 20 pellet with using the quick stack trick or a reflux or recursion.

You keep asking for examples, please look around at the posts and show me examples of people asking for the 10th best weapon to complete their buildout.

I personally have a lot of fun challenging myself and my builds by changing up the M10 modifiers to non ideal. But that is just me.

I don’t think anyone would appreciate it if they said they were having trouble farming Killovolt and I recommended they use a shock infinity pistol just cause it would take longer.

OK, fine, semantically the weapons could be called OP or you could just say Best in Slot.

I almost didn’t play Mayhem level because everyone was saying that anything that wasn’t the new weapons was useless, and my friend had to convince me to try, and I struggled for the first few days because of the “required” OPQ. If people said the OP weapons were just OP and I could have used anything, my start to this update wouldn’t have been my worst experience.

Best is Slot is a lose term as well. I don’t understand why people like the Kaoson, I got the strongest single pellet variant and it is only good when I use rakk attack. I’m using the Anarchy right now, which is a gamble since it always kills me with its reload. But if I get enough stacks, I one shot badasses outside of fadeaway, and in fadeaway 3 shot most bosses. I has the potential to be OP to the point it is better than all the other guns. I have a Rakk Attack insider that is a x12 pellet, and it kills ten times faster than the OPQ, to the point of a single shot sometimes kills enemies if I got lucky with the splash damage as well. I will agree that the new legendaries are OP, but I wouldn’t say best in slot. I needed ammo for my OPQ more than any other gun most days. I guess I am just having a better experience than everyone else, and I think I’ll leave it at that? I will say Sand Hawk, OPQ, Yellowcake, strongest out of the new legendaries

Well, good news for you is, once cartel ends and the next level cap increase occurs most of these, except the M6 dedicated ones, will become pretty well useless as you wont be able to get them at the new level cap.

I am sorry that you feel frustrated about this and I personally will try to make an effort to say that I think it is easier with the new weapons instead of saying you should try to get one of these for your build.

Best of luck and fun in your playstyle. As long as YOU enjoy it, keep on trucking. :sunglasses:

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I stopped reading at this first line. I don’t need to listen to anyone to see weapons I was using immediately before 2.0 barely touching mobs in high mayhem levels let alone M10. I get the feeling from this line that you haven’t actually played M10. Sure there are a few old weapons that are still passable but many of the top tier weapons that worked really well in the old M4 are now laughable on M10 and especially when compared to the new guns. The Lob is marginal at best. Oldridian is a joke and it was awesome before.

Sorry but not worth reading a wall of text that begins with that quoted line because I can’t take it seriously.


it probably depends on the build and character
i dare to say, its the best weapon for moze right now?


With the double hits doing splash damage and pinpoint accuracy for crits it is certainly a contender.

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I’m on Mayhem 10 all the time. I use the Oldridian all the time as well, but it doesn’t have the anoint I want, so I need to farm a new one. Also the Lob is the only reason, other than the Yellowcake, I even got Zane to M10. Lob marginal? Dude have you ever shot that thing? The thing that does you know, just over 50% of Yellowcake’s damage? So I have no idea what Lob you are using, but it clearly isn’t the same one I am using. My whole point of this is to tell people that you CAN use the other weapons. Hell Amara’s best weapon right now is the Hellshock, weird how thats been in the game since day 1. So clearly you don’t really know what you are talking about.