Dear BL3 Community

My biggest problem with the community is that many of its members seem to think that it’s a good idea to make personal comments about strangers on the internet.

So: be nice. Please.


I am running a deathless Flak Gamma burst build right now with a reflux and a recursion for group mobs and a kaoson for single targets or those rare occasions I run outta ammo. All have the under 50% health +150% radiation damage.

Been using him to farm M10 scraptrap with cartel on for Guardian ranks. About 2 or 3 runs gets a rank and takes about 4 minutes per run atm.

As I said, if your playstyle is fun for you, go for it but most of the old weapons just dont hold up to that type of mob density for me.

Yes anarchy would work but as you lose the exp bonus to M10 if you go into FFYL it isn’t practical under those terms. Too many self induced deaths in that enclosed space for my liking.

Mate, you’re trying too hard to defend gearbox’s poor design decisions for some unknown reason. I had a dedicated build for protuberances on my zane and it used to 2 shot almost anything back on m 1.0 (mayhem 4). Got a mayhem 10 lvl 57 one recently and even got a better artifact AND using speed demon, but the gun needs like 4 hits at max speed just to get past the first health bar. That performance is abysmal considering the gear dedication and I would expect it to at least be decent, but it’s very bad. In that context, I find that gun useless, yes. What’s the point of spending 50 ammo to kill something when I can just spend one ammo with yellowcake and delete an entire pack of enemies?

90% guns useless? More like 95%+. You can count the good guns with your hand fingers.


Discussions like this are bound to get heated up. My request is that you mods would stop banning people for the pettiest of things, please. Let us discuss in peace. It feels like communism on this forums.


While you have a point, there’s still a lot to point out.

Any content you see has a damage threshold. That is, the point a weapon has to perform at before it “feels bad”. We can get our weapons now up to two times the damage they used to be…but enemies are now 12 times the health. This effectively moves the damage threshold 6 spaces further up than it used to be.

Then there’s the new weapons that sit very comfortably within the threshold.

The Kaoson, a Dahl SMG has way more damage than the Dahl SMG the Hellfire…and also, has about the same DoT damage, thereby making the Hellfire feel like a redundant weapon now. Those are the things people mean when they say the old weapons are useless.

The Monarch is a Better Dictator. Reflux a better Brainstormer. Sandhawk would have competition but they broke the Storm Sisters. Kaoson is like a Hellfire and Kybs worth in one.

The old guns aren’t being called useless in a vacuum. They’re being called ineffective thanks to something known as Power Creep. Where the game has tried to burn them into obsolescence, and done a rather good job.



That would be precisely my point…

If things do get heated, we’re here to cool things down, so that intelligent discussion can continue without folks insulting each other. That’s literally all we’re here for. This is all explained in the FORUM RULES, please read them.

I’m not sure which bans you’re talking about, so please, pm if you have an example of this or have any other concerns about moderator actions.


Joltzdude has shown that there are a lot of viable weapons for M10.

1 Like

I hear alot of talk about ‘casuals’ and M10 and weapon complaints. This raises an immediate question…

If you consider yourself a ‘casual’ then what are you doing in M10?


Those guns were considered mediocre to outright bad even pre-Mayhem 2.0

While some have always been crap, others simply fell victim to GBX’s power creep agenda.

But now on M10, with their ridiculous low damage numbers compared to actually viable guns, they are nothing more than a shiny, orange-glowing piece of … well, you get the point.

1 Like

So, the guy that has absolutely perfect class mods, artifact, shield, grenade, anointments makes some average gun work? Color me suprised :slight_smile:
I remember when he put out some moze build that had a com with perfect skill points and secondary stats for his build. Stuff like that is literally impossible unless you’re modding your items with the parts editor.
I’m not saying all guns should delete everything with minimal investment, but having ~75% of a perfect setup should make that gun which synergizes with the bonuses at least somewhat good. This isn’t the case for most guns. Hell, this isn’t the case for most guns even with 100% perfect gear.


I run Moze and Zane, I don’t have the luxury of subscribers sending me loot but I have near perfect gear from farming. It’s not outside any realm of possibility to obtain these items, especially now with the Loot the Universe going on with targeted farming.

There are 10 levels of Mayhem to give all players somewhere to be challenged. If players feel they need to be in the higher Mayhem levels without proper gear thats on them.


Its funny because on twitter, you can easily tell joltz and k6 are upset with mayhem 2.0. they play it sure but theyve got the same complaints as the ones on here. few guns viable, action skills viability, bad endgame, dedicated loot, etc.

I mean, just look at k6’s latest video. He’s pretty vocal about it.


I agree. Anyone who thinks that these guys aren’t complaining about mayhem 2.0 needs to watch their streams.

1 Like

I agree with everything you’ve said but I have one complaint. I wish you wouldn’t call the ppl complaining “hardcore players” because they are not. Real hardcore players rise to challenges instead of complaining about being challenged. I would use different adjectives; but don’t use any of the ones I would choose because though my adjectives aren’t profane they are not nice :grin:.


ahahaha, dont think its true to assume people who play at the highest level of any game dont complain at all

It’s pretty easy to get there with all these ridiculous power creep weapons :confused:

1 Like

Unfortunately nuance is hard on the Internet even with walls of text :weary:. But here goes …

I’m not talking about complaints in general. As a matter of fact one of the benefits of these forums is it’s a place where ppl can air issues they are having and have those issues addressed in real-ish time by the community and/or in some hotfix or patch later on by GBX.

Hopefully that cleared up my position on complaints in general.

In the specific case of my reply it was in support of the OP’s observations that ppl were complaining about perceived issues (e.g., YouTuber X said mayhem 2.0 sucks and blah, blah, blah). And in particular, the complaints that I VEHEMENTLY disagree with are the ones about M10 making all guns obsolete and/or that ONLY the new weapons are viable in M10 and/or that action skills don’t scale, etc.

The crux of my disagreement is not about any specific numeric value (e.g., # of viable weapons, action skill damage scaling factor, etc). What I disagree with is the assumption that the old values need to change at all. For example, why, at the pinnacle difficulty mode of the game, designed for using your BEST builds MUST most guns remain viable? As for the action skill not scaling nonsense, the vault hunters in this game are already INSANELY powerful!!! So much so that GBX had to increase shield/armor/health by 12500% to give us some kind of challenge; and even after doing so FL4K, Amara, and Zane can still CRUSH M10 when geared and spec’d just so. So what on earth would be achieved by scaling up action skill damage other than turning the pinnacle difficulty mode into normal mode? If y’all want normal mode then play normal mode but whining about M10 being a challenge is like complaining that water is wet! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

The other thing that bugs me about the complaints is that it assumes that M10 is where everyone should be playing. It’s not! What’s so great about M2.0 is that there are 10 levels and 9 and 10 are reserved (because they have no exclusive loot locked behind them) purely for the challenge. So play normally in 0-8 then bring your best builds and gear into 9 or 10 to challenge your toon/self. So once again, it’s SUPPOSED to be challenging!!! (even though it’s not for FL4K :grin:)


Sure, you can get there but when you get there based on Event weapons that will soon sunset you’re in for a rude awakening without proper gear.

I can play ‘Impossible’ mode on any game because it’s easy to get to…just click on the difficulty tab. When I get there I shouldn’t be surprised that without proper playstyle/gear I get destroyed.

Just because Yellowcake can get you there doesn’t mean that’s where you should be.


Well, the kaoson for example is for ever and it destroys enemies in several seconds there
Monarch is also permanent
Just to name 2 of the new +6 guns
This whole +6 thing was a bad idea
What is it supposed to do?
Limit the “endgame” around 10 guns because their are considered “top tier”?

Yes Zane takes more work but he hasn’t fallen off. Here is a gimmick build I put together to make the point that M10 isn’t IMPOSSIBURuU w/o the new meta weapons. And yes there is crit swapping but the real secret sauce is Playing Dirty because it doubles the stickies which dramatically amplify the effect.