Dear BL3 Community

It is still used, just not in every build. I would love one for my Moze, but running to that boss is just a process lolz. But I also don’t play Moze too much, so I don’t really have a use for it on my Fl4k. I do know eventually I’ll go grab one, just to have it. The ION CANNON issue was that it was on everyone for every build, and now the using more ammo makes it harder to use. So less people use it, but I still see it. I’ve seen it n a few M10 builds too.

I’d suggest it’s rare and is now a niche weapon, though. To me a textbook example of why nerfing is bad. Nobody wins by it and the weapon being nerfed becomes a novelty item

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I never used the gun, but if the nerfing did ruin it so that builds supporting it no longer find it viable then it was nerfed too hard or needs buffs in other areas around it. I dont think there should be any gun that everyone can use on m10 without a supporting build. The yellowcake falls into that without a doubt. I myself would prefer them to spend the time buffing the weaker guns than worry about nerfing the new stuff just yet though. People do tend to rally behind this stuff when they feel there is no better alternative.

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True, nerfing can sometimes make a weapon completely unused. But if all they did with the Yellowcake was increase the ammo it used, would the same thing happen? Would people really just stop using it altogether? Maybe that is all it needs is to use more ammo? Or just stay the same and always be a gun that a lot of people consider a “must have” which is something that GB has, seemingly, tried to avoid doing so far in BL3.

If this were a Star Wars community the quote “Every single word of what you just said was wrong.” would fit perfectly.

What you’re describing here is not BL2, it’s actually BL3 right now:

  • a mess of imbalance
  • one of like 10 things that would kill something
  • a mess in the endgame
  • didn’t care about gun balance
  • just tossed weapons in without care
  • guns either so powerful […] or so weak

This is exactly BL3 atm.

We all know BL2 had it’s issues. Like the exponential scaling (GBX admitted it was a short-sighted mistake) or OP levels (GBX admitted they broke the game). I have yet to see them admit they messed up with M2.0

And still power creep and extremely poor gun balancing wasn’t nearly as horrible as it is now with BL3. Actually power creep was virtually non-existent in previous titles, since even after 10 years, many top tier weapons are still from the base games.

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Oh don’t get me wrong, I even have compared this update to BL2 OP levels, but the difference is that in this game, right now in M10, I still have freedoms that didn’t exist in BL2 OP levels. It is very similar, but not the same. In BL2 if you didn’t play a specific character with a specific gun, shield, class mod, relic, grenade, that were all “perfect” or as close as you could get it, than what was the point in even playing OP? UVHM had more freedom than OP, but it was still lacking that freedom in the sense that your guns didn’t have to be as close to perfect, but you still were required to use a certain few. Me and my friend gave up on OP levels at 6 because it was just way too much to handle, not fun, and we were restricted. But I can still use basically any gun I want right now in M10 BL3, I just need anointments. I can use almost any classmod I want, some of my old favorites have fallen off or are useless due to be action skill based, but I can at least change my build, loadout, and playstyle at any moment to something else without worrying about it being utterly useless like it was in BL2. They are similar, yes, but not the exact same.

I love how this thread is basically one guy defending the crappy design choices that came with M10.

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Eh, I don’t find it crappy, so of course I will defend it.

But I also defend it because I have PTSD from BL2 OP levels. To the point that since BL3 came out, I haven’t even looked at BL2. I’ve played BL1 and TPS, but I haven’t touched BL2 just because of the horrible PTSD that game gave me and my friend. He doesn’t even like talking about it anymore. Yes it was that bad of an experience for us, yes we understand we are probably just terrible at the game.

I don’t think it can be said better than this.

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I love how the poster hasnt responded to this well constructed reply yet that succinctly describes everything that is wrong in the gearing system right now, but what do i know ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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Fair enough. My opinion and experiences with these games are just different than yours then.

I feel like OP10 and M10 have much in common, and both can work with non-optimal builds/gear. It’s just not efficient regarding how long it takes to kill stuff in comparison to the actually good stuff.

However, in the end what makes OP levels still better than M2.0 for me (even though the concept of slag existed) is gun dmg/action skill/gear balancing and power creep. And modifiers too (I’m just not a big fan of those and I think they are still poorly implemented).

Sorry, woke up to a wall of things I guess I missed this point.

I do understand that in comparison that the newer guns make older guns feel “worse”. That is something I understand, and even I said “the monarch is dictator on crack” to my friend when I started using it. I understand this completely. My argument here wasn’t with the fact that I am not understanding that. My argument is that, actually yes, people are calling guns useless. Less effective would have been a nicer word, because it implies effectiveness still. There are even comments followed by your post that have people saying useless. THAT is my argument. I do like the way you are explaining it, and I am thankful for the input. I understand that Kaoson is a better version of other DAHL SMGs, but personally I couldn’t get it to work that well on my Fl4k and had better use of a Gamma Burst Hellfire than I did with the Kaoson. That was my experience.

But yes sir, people are saying useless. Joltz, YouTuber/Streamer, has said in almost all his build videos, that 90% of the weapons are useless. He uses Useless, he over exaggerates 90%. In a more recently made build video he even said the Maggie wasn’t good it was, okayish, meanwhile I use half a clip and still kill things. What replaced the Maggie if Kaoson replaced Night Hawkin or Hellfire, and Monarch replaced the dictator? He, and others popular gamers have specifically used the term Useless. Which my point of this thread is to stop using Useless as the term, but something else. I apologize if that wasn’t clear enough.

The big difference is the enemies aren’t changing other than health and such, not damage like in BL2. In two EVERYTHING had to increase to deal with not only the enemies being leveled up, but you getting the reduced damage you get against skull enemies.

I do think that they made a mistake with not scaling Grenade, Shield damages at least (novas, spike, whatever), Relic Damage (not that they mattered too much, but still), and the anointments that do damage (which some seem to like the cryptospike and new nova while action skill active, seem to scale). That I will say was a huge questionable choice. I hope they fix that along with action skill damage in the future.

The modifiers are actually pulled directly from Moxxxi’s arena DLC in BL1, other than a few new ones. I know some part of the community have been asking for another Arena like DLC since BL2. But idk if this was their answer. But honestly a lot of Mayhem 2.0 seems to be pulled directly from that Moxxxi DLC. Go back and play it and you’ll see.

Keep doing what you are doing fam because contrarian voices are necessary, especially when group-think runs amok, as it has a tendency to do in on these forums, in regard to BL3, thanks (I think) to social media and YouTube.

Though most of the ppl on the forum don’t want to change their minds about anything there are some who understand where you are coming from even if they don’t agree with every bullet point. The price one pays for such candidness is to face-off against the joyless ppl. :grin:

The joyless ppl declare their righteousness by claiming that because most ppl on the forum believe the same nonsense they do it means they MUST be right! My favorite example was the fever pitch wails to nerf Maliwan Takedown; then it got nerfed and even after the nerf the successful completion rates remained unchanged. So clearly the problem wasn’t the difficulty; but they’ll never admit it! :laughing:

The good news is that thus far GBX has been intelligent in how they go about integrating their feedback despite the overly negative tone with which it is given on the forums. For example, ppl complained about gear being locked behind the highest difficulty level in Mayhem 1.5 as one of the many supposed justifications for why MT needed to be nerfed. M2.0 everything unlocks by M8 leaving M9-10 purely as a pinnacle difficulty level just for the fun of it that no one HAS to play to get exclusive loot. Yet here you are explaining and defending it :wink:. And what fascinates me about this topic is that it’s not where you began. You too initially succumbed to group-think and had to be dragged into changing your mind. Which leads me to a question. Had your old self seen a post like yours, would the written words be enough to cause you to think differently, or would your response have been similar to many of the responses here?

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This is probably where I disagree the most in your post. “Intelligent” is a very strong word.

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I can safetly say that buffing iron bear only to introduce M10 a week later, all m6 weapons being grossly overpowered, the design of Tr4iner/Dominance etc are definitely decisions beyond my comrephension.

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People had given feedbacks on these but GBX didn’t handle these feedbacks intelligently. A simple explanation does not even exist from their part.

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Old me would have read something like this and start thinking. What got me out of my group think that I struggled with at the start? I saw someone on Facebook Comments mention they were still using the Hellshock at M10 without an issue. And I was like “so if that gun still works… Than why can’t others?” and so the testing began. Though it was also a “well due the Hellshock is broken since that last buff” but after a moment I started to think, but what if? My friend goes to Reddit forums a lot and he kept telling me “people are saying this and people are saying that” one big one being “If the gun doesn’t do 5K, than it is worthless.” Not but like 30 mins later we were going to kill GenIVIV, and I decided, since he went AFK for a moment, to go and get a Hellfire because I like the way it looks. I grabbed it, had a decent anointment for me, but not the best. And I began to actually shred through things. He went and grabbed it, used it on Moze, and was saying that it actually was way better than he thought it would be, and even used it for a while with mindsweeper. That gun does maybe 1.6K. He moved on to the sand hawks right after, but he did say that it wasn’t the worst gun. NOW it does use a lot of ammo, but so did the Hellfire from the other games, that thing just ATE ammo, so that never mattered to me. So what got me to start all this testing, was a single man’s comment on using the Hellshock, when the rest of the voices were screaming Cartel or M6+ weapons.

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If you balance for your highest level of difficulty it makes everything below it moot, thereby making your highest level of difficulty no longer the highest but merely the new ‘normal’.

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That’s another known issue of OP levels, true.

Yeah, pretty good idea to pull content from a DLC that’s generally regarded as one of the worst in the series.

If GBX weren’t so eager to ignore or completely overhaul anything TPS related, they could actually learn a thing or two from it, like gun/skill balancing or the mutator arena.

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