Dear BL3 Community

People don’t like the Moxxxi DLC? Huh… I only didn’t like that I didn’t get EXP for killing things in it, other than that I thought it was fun.

I completely forgot about that arena in TPS… Yea, they pulled some things from TPS. Like Lasers, buttslam, and the characters. But they seemed to have recon’d the entire story, and ignored a lot of other things. Which is confusing, seems like that want people to forget TPS happened, but at the same time don’t lolz.

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Indeed it is and I’m not being hyperbolic. Cases in points … :grin:

  • Ten levels of mayhem so there are more opportunities for players to find the mayhem level that’s right for them. This to me is in response to the complaint that M4 was to hard, M3 was too random, and everything else was too easy. Unfortunately, the unhappy ppl see M10 as their birth right and are railing against the fact that their old builds/gear don’t work at M10.

  • Modifiers only change when the player changes them. This was in response to the complaint against M3 and the lack of variety and “fun” modifiers in M4 that some ppl complained about.

  • Some modifiers have exploitable mechanics. I don’t remember anyone asking for that one but it’s a pretty cool concept in my book.

  • Gear is not exclusive to the pinnacle difficulty. This should mean that you play M10 only if you want the challenge and not because it’s the only way to get gear X.

  • Though they nerfed MT they left the original difficulty available to those who like a challenge.

  • GBX buffed a lot of weapons in the lead-up to M2.0 and added an INSANELY powerful gun to the mix ahead of it (I’m looking at you Anarchy) so we would at least have something to get us going.

  • M2.0 launched with OP guns so those who don’t have the inclination or time to get to make M10 capable builds can farm or trade for the OP stuff and have a run at mayhem levels above their skill ceiling. Granted, this may not have been intentional on GBX’s part, but that’s the effect as I see it. And I see it that way because the complaint against the nerf to the ION cannon seemed to center around the fact that some ppl couldn’t do the difficult content w/o something OP like the ION cannon and all the ammo in the world.

I could go on … :grin:

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Bad Posts (for individual posts not topics)

The problem with the weapon scaling IS the small amount of guns that actually are effective.

There’s no balance. The weapon is either to strong or to ineffective. It’s no fun one-shotting everything nor is emptying 20 clips into a common enemy.

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the kaoson is crazy good on moze

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This made me laugh, because it is so true. “Hey guys, got a new build video here, all you need is [insert 3 perfectly rolled items with matching anointments that would take any non-Youtuber years to find].”

A lot of the builds on the BL2 forum were the same way. I can’t tell you how many build videos I watched that had a load out made up of a Norfleet, a Twister, and Bekah, etc. in each slot. In other words, loadouts that you know the person did not actually farm for, because doing so would have been a life long mission.

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Dude, the Cartel weapons are fine. Not everyone wants to be shooting at bullet sponges.

A big thing that gets lost in all of these discussions is that the game exists outside of M10. Shocking, I know, but hear me out.

On Reddit, a player who had taken a break from the game was coming back, and wanted to try the new Mayhem system. He jumped up a few levels but found most of his gear was insufficient. Of course if he jumped straight to M10 with M0 gear he should expect a beating right?

Except he was going from M3 to M5. Think about how disorienting it would be for someone who hasn’t played the game in a month to come back now. You were on M3 before, where enemies had 100% extra EHP. That same difficulty now has 600%. You need to deal 5x more damage than you did on old M3 to play the new one. Likewise, if you want to get from M3 to M5, a difference of only 2 levels where the next one up only increased by 200%, you would actually need another 2.5x damage since M5 is twice as strong as M4 now. Think of how many people there are who weren’t even playing M4, who are now climbing up a mountain since the difficulty they played on was buffed by 6x. There are tons of players who are trying to find their way through that.

A lot of this issue is being covered up with the Cartel event. Whether it’s M6 to M10 or M0 to M2, people are telling anyone who’s having trouble to get a YC or OPQ. What happens once people can’t farm for these weapons anymore, and people who were playing M3 a month ago come back and see that they’ve been essentially booted out of Mayhem entirely? Does anyone even think about how the balance of the game, throughout its entirety, has been flipped on its head by M2.0?


I especially loved when people made YouTube videos like “the Butcher (a pearl) is a top 3 shotgun in Borderlands 2 (make sure you get matching elements with the extra projectiles prefix though otherwise it’s garbage)” or “you can easily Tediore chuck Hyperious as Axton before he even spawns his minions (you’re going to need an incendiary Avenger with a Bandit grip and the extra magsize prefix though)”.

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Oh, semantics. That’s my name!

Let’s start with aspect one of the use of the word useless in this context. It is a word of hyperbole, used to vent the frustration brought on by the fact that many things are Incredibly Less Effective. However, saying something is Incredibly Less Effective carries little to no weight, and gets shrugged off. Tell someone something is useless and they’ll think about it. Some will go “yeah. I guess so”. Others will test it and come to the conclusion of agreement. And still others will work to prove it inaccurate. They will either succeed or fail. Some of that will be on their mechanical skill. Some of it will be on their understanding of game mechanics. A combination of the two. Or pure luck. But the fact is that hyperbole is a tool of discussion that is often employed because Middle of The Road statements tend to get left…in the middle of the road.

But there’s a truth to the use of the word useless that comes down to aspects of connotation and audience. The people who check youtube videos tend to fit into a couple of categories. These aren’t mutually exclusive nor are they all encompassing. But for simplicity sake let’s mention three:

There’s Gun Review videos. These are watched by people who wanna know what a gun does and whether it’s worth looking for. These help all levels of players, because they give them a peak into the future of their own loadouts without having to farm something they won’t want.

Then there’s Playthrough Videos. These are watched by people who want to be entertained by a streamers personality and playing ability. These are often watchrd by people who don’t play, as well as people who want to play better, or just want to feel like they kinda experienced playing with someone they enjoy.

Then there’s build videos. This is where you’re gonna see the talk about “useless” weapons the most. Why? Because no one goes to a build video for “Here’s a fun way to play, it’s a little struggle bus, but it’s fun!”. That’s my niche. Lol. I’ve got a few of those videos. But no.

People go to build videos for “How to destroy content”. They don’t want the guns that take clips to kill enemies. They want to know how to one day get that 6 minute takedown.

So the use of the word useless, when seen in context to the audience these videos are designed for, makes perfect sense.

The fact is. They buffed a bunch of guns before m2.0 launch and some of those buffs let them hang in the Damage Threshold. Hellshock is one of them. Hellfire got some buffs, as did some other weapons.

You questioned the Maggie. There’s no new replacement for it yet, but it was already starting to drag a bit back at old m4. Now, it’s not really hanging in there.

There’s an issue at play here that goes beyond these weapons not performing well. That’s this loop Gearbox has made of answering the call for greater difficulty by adding more health to enemies…and then giving guns that negate that buff. So the people who wanted the added difficulty get those guns. And now the game is too easy because they won’t NOT use them. So we get an endless cycle of guns falling further and further behind as they keep doing that.

I enjoy taking a while to clear an area as long as that area clear feels like a fight and not a slog. That damage threshold I keep mentioning is the difference between a Battle and a Slog. When you have to dump a clip or two into the weakest enemy of the pack, that’s when you’ve hit slog territory.

Now for a few odds and ends.

You mention the Hellfire doing better than the Kaosin for you. I’d assume that in part that’s because a Gamma Hellfire will rip apart a shield then burn the flesh rather well. A suboptimal Kaosin might get held up at one step or the other. Another thing possibly happening is not accounting for the stickies. You might be using twice as much ammo on an enemy compared to what’s necessary because you didn’t account for the damage the stickies will do when they explode.

“Group Think”

I could rant for eons about the unironic use of Orwellian style vocabulary in active discussion. But this is neither the time nor place for that so I’ll try to be succinct in this one.

Group Think is often thrown around by people who are “dissenting” an opinion they see as prevalent in an attempt to discredit it with the connotation of 1984’s Big Brother. It’s a hyperbolic insult designed to place oneself as the true savior of free thought, assuming that the people they disagree with are all wrong because they agree and that it must all be part of socio-psychological hive mind effect that the Group Think Sayer is somehow impervious to. It often neglects to realize we are all sharing our experiences and coming to our own conclusions that tend to be similar enough that we say we agree. Especially in America, we have this notion that the rebel is always right, and the use of “Group Think” in this instance is an example of that mindset seeping through.

You can find use in the old guns and still recognize that there is a lot going wrong with how we’re expected to play with them. That’s all people are asking, that you recognize that the tool box has been severely reduced in effectiveness at higher levels of difficulty, and a continuation of this trend will only result in a very bland end result that will not be the beautiful Tapestry of weaponry that many want the game to be.


Man, I don’t even have words for this, but like… You write so good. Love it. But anyway thank you, that does make some sense. Because I am tired of repeating things I have previously said I am going to be leaving it here. That was really well put, some things I still don’t agree with, but hey, that is the point of opinions. But seriously, dude, why you write so good? Like… Dang… English major of some sort?

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Lol, just a word nerd with a penchant for making sure everything I write is up to my own standards. Lyrics and poems are my main skillset, but I like to stay well rounded :stuck_out_tongue:

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Not even kidding I was thinking that you had to write poems. Like not sure what it was about your typing, but I felt poetic nature. I used to love writing poems in grade school, but since I am terrible at English, which is my only language, I just write random things. But honestly, keep it up!

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I’m guessing that this is directed at me since I’m the one who introduced the term into this topic. You are free to interpret my words how you wish but in the writing of the words I tried to make clear where I’m coming from and none of what I actually said reflects your interpretation. So let me be more explicit. There are two reasons why I introduced the term.


Here is a specific reference in case you think I’m making it up.

There is also @DragHim’s own observation expressed and quoted below …


If you would like me to link to a recent response on a different topic where the response was basically saying that people not agreeing with the position that Mayhem 2.0 is trash are being disingenuous because everyone else agrees that it is trash. I can dig for it and post that also.

Hi there.
So, I flagged a few posts upthread, because they are off-topic (rather than having something to do with dismantling capitalism and returning the means of production to the workers).
If anyone has any comment to make regarding moderation, the thing to do, according to the FORUM RULES is to pm a moderator. You all agreed to those rules when you signed up here. So…

We do read every pm we get. If you have something you want to say to us, say it in a pm. Ta.

Oh, and I just want to mention that expressing a negative opinion about a game is fine. What matters is how that opinion is expressed.

Carry on. Back on topic.


How much will you charge to write all my future youtube videos for me

Well put

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Dude, I can head into Mayhem 5 with two different weapons that have the same damage stat. One will do 697 per shot while the other does 4230… same element. Similar fire rate. Doesn’t take a hardcore gamer to know that something is wack with balance even before you hit Mayhem 10.

While I understand what the OP’s gist is I myself disagree. Outside of an absolute very few “old” guns, the majority of them simply do not do enough damage to be useful at M10.
Sure, if you have all the perfect anointments, some will be useable.
Of course, getting those anointments alone is a huge issue with this game.
But several items listed, like Oldridian, Soulrender, Breath of the Dying, Gatling Gun, Roisen’s Thorns, Companion, Lucians and Rowans Call, Carrier, Linoge, Nemesis would really like to know why they all worked in M4, but the M10 equivalent requires 3 to 4 times the ammo, not for a badass, but a regular simple bandit.

I am not one of those who just ran around “one shotting” everything. Most of the weapons I listed needed a little work to use in M4, but in M10 their equivalents do not stand up in any fashion I have found.
I am not a “Pro” but I also have quite a bit of knowledge about the game and do understand fully the mechanics.

To me, the majority of the weapons in the game have been neutered too much, plain and simple…


I know it’s kind of irrational to you maybe, but I’m the type of dude who, if I have that OPQ/Yellowcake in my inventory, I feel kinda dumb using weaker weapons on high difficulties. Like “why am I spending 3 mags to kill stuff when I could do it in half? Why am I killing these bad guys, what am I looking for? Better gear to tackle this difficulty with? I already have it.”
A weapon has to have a seriously annoying mechanic for me not to use it no matter what (e.g. a cryo shrieking devil, or a Bearcat). Otherwise, if I am struggling (and mayhem 10 is a struggle), I simply won’t use the B-tier weapons.
My solution is to not play on high mayhem levels. Lots of guns still work great there.

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