Dear Doctor Dumbass: A guide to Min/maxing

(Min/Maxing and Flakker god) #1

[SIZE=“1”][/SIZE][SIZE=“4”]STICKY STATUS! [/SIZE]Blut’s ego grew 90 sizes that day and suffocated 50 million people and a beached whale.

[SIZE=“6”]I can’t keep filling this thread with videos, for the entire Dear Doctor Dumbass youtube series click here[/SIZE][SIZE=“1”]Not to mention I tend to have more insultingly hilarious videos I can’t post here[/SIZE].

In this guide we will explore the best parts on each weapon and will explain why those are the best.
This guide will also cover farming at OP8.
All math is done with OP8 weapons without elemental bonus(where applicable) on the 72 test target. For OP8 equations lower it by 40% and add in elemental multiplier.

A0. Basic run down.
A1. General rules.
A2. Hyperion recoil gimmick.(video guide)
A3. Matching part bonuses.
B0. The farmers dilemma.
B1. OP8 farming.
B2. The tedium.
B3. Farmer’s salary run down.
C0. The Harold.
C1. Harold’s power debate.
C2. Harold grip debate.
C3. Best prefix for Harold.
D0. Specific niche weapons.(video guide)
D1. Butcher
D2. Pitchfork
D3. Bitch
D4. Flakker
D5. White death
E0. Why care about parts?
E1. The pure debacle.
F0. Snipers.
F1. The prefix.
F2. Grip debate.
F3. Bee sniping.
G0. Rockets.
H0. Best Weapons.
H1. DPS VS Ease of use.
H2. Viability.
H3. Versatility.
H4. Synergy.
I0. The prefix.
I1. The double accessory
I2. Damage VS Fire rate
I3. Jakobs weapons
J0. Drop rate semantics
K0. Raiding VS Mobbing
K1. Viabilities.
L0. Tediore
L1. Grip debate
L2. The throw.
M0. Nonvisual parts guide.
M1.Assault Rifle grips
M2.Pistol Grips
M3. Rocket Grips
M4. Shotgun Grips
M5. Sniper Grips
M6. SMG Grips
M7a. Dahl Stocks
M7b. Stocks
M8. Assault Rifles
M9. Snipers
M10. SMGs
M11. Shotguns
N0. The math stuff.
N1. Element Stacking
N2. Critical Stacking
N2. Skill Stacking
N3. Weapon/Gun Damage Stacking
O0. Shields
O1. Parts
O2. Benefits
P0. Healthgate abuse
P1. Basics
P2. Character specific abuse
Q0. Video Tutorials.
Q1. Melee Krieg
Q2. LBT DT Gaige
Q3. Gaige OP8 Gear guide
X0. Other DDD Guides
Y0.Useful Links
Z0. Contributors.

A0. Basic run down:

A1.The general rules:
Matching the grip to the manufacturer gives best results 95% of the time.
Dahl stock is best stock bar none.
Hyperion stock for shotguns.

But it’s far more complex then just that.

A2.Hyperion recoil gimmick:
Dahl vs Hyperion stock debate.
The video sound is low so you have to crank up the volume, currently working on a fix.
As you see Dahl is the best for hyperion, while torgue is best for hyperion shotguns.
Important thread to read about this gimmick.(click me)


A3. Matching part bonuses.

Matching grip bonuses:
Increase to magazine size and a decrease to reload speed.

Matching sight Bonuses:

Matching stock bonuses:
Dahl weapons gain an additional pellet in their burst(SMGs and snipers only)

Matching barrel bonuses:
Dahl weapons gain an additional pellet in their burst.
Additional damage
[B]B0. The farmers dilemma

B1.Farming at OP8:[/B]
Op8 is an optional game mode, it was designed for the hardcore players who broke the game like myself and bahroo. If you find it too hard lower the level, no one said you have to play OP8. If you think you are being forced into it then you have no free will and aren’t being a smart player simply put.
When starting OP8 with no gear it’s a good thing to get some of the basics.
The Antagonist is a great shield, you can farm pete at 72 for the crystals fairly easily.
Florentine is also another good choice along with leadstorm. Infection is OK at best and not worth the seraphs.
Seeker can work if you get s slippery with a torgue grip but not the best thing in the world.
Ideally what you should farm for is a is a Harold and an antagonist. Purple vladof absorb shields can work if you can find much else.
Adaptives aren’t recommended too much on OP8 because of how they work and having higher health in mobbing can turn sour real fast because of health gating.
They are still usable but the easiest and best shield to get is the Antagonist. Torgue tokens can be gotten on PT1 and worst comes to worse you can farm the dragons in DLC4 for eridium and use the slot machines in that DLC for seraph crystals.

The easiest and best to get will be Florentine, Antagonist,Harold. Relics and class mods don’t need to be leveled up just yet.
For parts try to get a Florentine with a maliwan grip and impetuous.
For Harold try to get Double penetrating or . DP you don’t need the torgue grip but it’s by far the best and you’ll want it for when you are starting to max everything out again.
Antagonist is what ever you are most comfortable with, The model I use has a reflect of 840 and a delay of 1.58.
880 is the max reflect on that shield.

B2.The tedium of getting the perfect part item:
This can take forever to get your perfect parts. Simply put a weapon with the correct element, grip, sight, stock, and prefix has a rough drop rate of .00000478%
Just hang in there it will drop, you might be dead and bones turned to dust but it will drop one day. Well that’s if the Neil Degrasse Tyson isn’t correct about the universe.

B3. Min/maxing on a farmers salary:
When trying to min/max as a purist and not using trade forums it can be next to impossible to get that perfect parts item.
The trick here is learning when to settle with something, the most important factors on an item are the prefix and grip. It’s up to you what you prioritize.
The sight should be the last thing you care about with the stock as the second to last. There are times when the stock just ruins the whole weapon cough jakobs stocks cough and that means you might have to refarm the item.
Learn to prioritize what you are after. After that you can have fun farming and it won’t be a tedious action. Only go after that unicorn if you have free time and want ti that badly.

C0. The Harold

C1.Why the Harold isn’t the end all be all:
This is to end the argument about how powerful the Harold really is, simply put it’s not the best gun in the game at all.
For the high DPS weapons it’s the easiest to use. Taking the Zerker out of the equation for everything, Pimpernel can out DPS the Harold by a considerable amount is you learn how to shoot it. The flakker can also out preform the Harold but specifics are specfics.
Simply put it’s an easy to use weapon and still a weapon to keep on hand for every character because it works with every character and build, less so with anarchy Gaige but just barrel ram them.

C2.The grip: “Jakobs vs Torgue vs all others”:
This debate pops up a lot with the gunzerker and money shotting a lot.
Simply put Fire rate over the damage, just because you fire two less shot doesn’t mean it’s better. The higher fire rate means you can proc incon more frequently. It also allows you to more easily stack the fire rate to hit the cap and the reload will allow you to do farm more DPS.
With other characters it still comes down to the Torgue grip being just that much better. You have the fastest reload and the second highest damage with the middle road fire rate. Vladof will give you a higher fire rate but deals far less damage and it’s Burst DPS doesn’t match that of the jakobs even.

C3.The accessory:
It’s well agreed that the double penetrating(double prefix) Harold is by far the best one.
Without getting into all that complex math stuff lets just put it down to, it basically doubles its fire rate and it doesn’t lose much damage.
But lets assume you are getting impatient with farming for that torgue grip DPUH what other prefixes are good?
Simply put we have two classes: Mobbing and raiding.
The Damage(hard) and fire rate(intense) prefixes are perfectly fine for mobbing but won’t be the greatest thing for raiding. They will lack a lot of the require power to pass a raid boss’s gear check.
Crammed(mag size) and stiff(stability) aren’t very great. Explicit(accuracy) can give you slightly more range but that’s negligible.

D0.Specific weapons


Best parts: Bandit grip, Torgue stock.

Best Parts:

Best parts:

D5. White death/Lyuda

E0. Why care about parts?

E1.Why pure manufacturer part weapons aren’t the best:
For this let’s use the bekah as an example. The bekah has ridiculous recoil and is hard to keep on target as it is, with the addition of the jakobs stock it becomes unusable just about.
The stock plays a lot in recoil control for guns not to mention hipfiring and accuracy recovery.
One other example is snipers, more often you want a jakobs grip over any other grip.
See hyperion recoil gimmick for another.
SWK’s remark on perfects.


F0. Min/maxing snipers

F1. The prefix
This is a multi tier question, what is your goal here?
The Crit boosts crit damage by 20% and the damage boosts the base damage up by 15%.
With an every day use you well get better performance out of the damage prefix unless you are using the bee.
On a crit without the bee the damage prefix will do more than the crit bonus.
With a bee the the crit bonus takes effect after the amp Damage has been added in so you get the extra 20% on the amp.
The fire rate prefix doesn’t boost up snipers by very much so it’s not typically recommended.

F2. Jakobs vs Manufacturer grip.
With this you have a major choice for the most part.
You can either have a higher one shot potential or slightly higher DPS.
On a sniper like the pimpernel the grip is negligible, you can stack more CA in a raid if you play zero with the pimpernel or the like.
A slagging CA sniper should have a maliwan grip for the increased slag chance if you aren’t prestacking.
With a weapon like the white death you really do want the vladof grip because it does over all help the sniper with what it need.
You will get more damage from the jakobs grip but if you are using the Bee go Manufacturer since jakobs does lower the fire rate unless the sniper is jakobs.

F3. The bee and sniping.
Let’s face it most people will be sniping with a bee because its easy and tends to lead to more consistent one shots.
When sniping with a bee remember these rules, the element is the most important factor for one shots.
The pimpernel will get full amp on each child orb so it’s the best one by a long shot.
Pitchfork and white death both get full amp on each one since they are considered unlisted.
If you want a more “traditional” type of sniping a maliwan purple rarity snider is one of the best snipers, rakhells are also a good choice for the fire rate on larger targets with hidden crit spots. Mukamuk is decent enough for the Jakobs enthusiast.
Godfinger will also get full amp on each when it splits so that might be the best for “traditional”.
Pimpernel is still the best by a long shot.

G0. Rockets:

H0. Best weapons
H1. DPS VS Ease of use.
H2. Viability
H3. Versatility.
H4. Synergy.
H5. Top 5
To be Top 5 it has to excel at both Raiding and Mobbing, even better if every class or most can use it to similar effects…
1. Pimpernel
With all the exploits and just the shear amount of raw damage potential it comes at the top of the list.
It’s the only gun that can consistently one shot hyperius with just bore. Even with it’s slight learning curve it just can’t easily be beat.
Best: Barking(even when using a bee)
Maliwan/Jakobs grip (Maliwan is better for DPS and is more forgiving, Jakobs is superior for co-op and single shot.)
Dahl/Hyperion Stock
^Fully optimized? Better results than a Harold in the same stance.

2. Grog Nozzle/Rubi.
Shear healing effects of them but them here. Grog is obviously better and the drunk effect gets exploited a lot.
Can’t really kill things with them but they allow you to survive longer than one should hence they get put here.
Best: Maliwan grip,
3. Unkept Harold
High DPS and easy to use. Little to No learning curve.
Best: Torgue grip, Double penetrating Prefix.

4. Interfacer
While this has a learning curve if you watch the Raid boss time trials this is used in a lot of them. It’s one of those ridiculous DPS weapons that makes it in the top five because it’s just that crazy.
Best: Hyperion grip, Torgue stock, practicable prefix.

5. Norfleet/topneeaNorfleet is crazy hard to obtain so topneea typically is used as a replacement.
Even with them not being able to solo a raid boss as a stand alone they still get used as a back up tool.

Honorable mentions:
Sandhawk is the best SMG in the game bar none. Issue is most can’t use it to an amazing effect without the bee.
It still gets a mention here. Best: Pure dahl, Flying prefix.

This thing is incredibly hard to use as a stand alone and most cast it aside or just use it for the “flakker swapping” exploit.
If you are willing to spend the time you can get some ridiculous results with it. It has one of the highest if not the highest raw damage potential in the game, it’s a force to be recconded with. Best: Torgue grip, Hyperion stock, Casual prefix.

Tediore Plasma Casters.
They are just that good and you can solo a raid with them. Just takes practice.
I0. The prefix

I1. Double accessory.
This is not the best accessory like everyone thinks. The issue with the accessory is that it lowers accuracy, damage and game mechanics treat it as basically two fang so you get those massive recoil jumps. And if using two fang it becomes way too inaccurate most of the time.
The only weapon in the game that can take the losses and not have a massive have much of an issue with it because it’s DPS is just that high is the Harold.
This will increase the DPS but be wary of it’s negatives, you might want to select another accessory in the long run because while it’s Burst DPS is much higher the sustained will be less than a fire rate accessory.
It’s a good choice if you can mitigate it’s flaws.
If you can’t try the other ones see what works best for you.

I2. Fire rate vs Damage.
This is highly dependent n the weapon but fire rate is almost always the best choice since DPS does play a crucial role the farther you get into the game.
Not to mention on some weapons fire rate increased the bullet velocity(most noticeable is the sandhawk) with increased velocity also means weapons like the Sawbar get increased range.
Fire rate you get increased DPS and Burst DPS while Damage you deal more with the ammo pool.
Either is good but for raiding you want fire rate almost always.
Very few weapons don’t get a huge benefit from these two like the highest DPS version of the Kerblaster is actually plump(magazine size)

I3. Jakobs weapons
So we have two types here we have the normal and then we have weapons like the Rex and unforgiven.
Since most jakobs weapons are these semi-auto rapid fire guns the fire rate accessory will cause rounds to ricochet off the ground or walls, while that does have it’s uses your best will always be the damage prefix with a jakobs except on the unforgiven/rex on those the fire rate is king. Double just isn’t a fantastic attachment on these because in UVHM they lose way too much.
This is a long argued point about the unforgiven and rex where people say the double is the best to fix the fire rate, well here’s the thing both have hidden bonus critical damage bonuses and the double you’ll miss more on normal enemies if you are using them for headshots, with fire rate you can hit the head a lot more consistently with every round.

Now we get to the Maggie, everyone is obsessed about the two fer Maggie and all I have to say is for two rounds you lose roughly 400k damage for an OP8 model.
Lets assume you have the 900 pistol round max, that’s 180million damage.
That’s enough to kill wattle gobbler 180million times over on OP8, well not literally but it can kill him several times over. That 180mil can be life and death because you wanted a slightly higher burst DPS.

J0. Drop rate semantics

K0. Raiding VS Mobbing
K1. Viabilities
K2. Major differences

L0. Tediore

L1. Bandit VS Tediore grip.
total ammo pool, 392280000/382191000 with one shot fired.
Throw count 28/29
DPS 6671428/8789000?
L2. The throw.

M0. Nonvisual parts guide(section done by The Dominus)
Assault Rifles

Bandit- The most obvious thing is how diagonal the grip is. The bottom has a long slanted going up from left to right. The right side of the slant has a bolt sticking out.
Jakobs- Very thin grip, curved. The trigger resides in a small rectangular opening.
Vladof- Very hard lines, no curves what so ever. The trigger resides in an opening that is rather large compared to the trigger.
Dahl- Very similar to Vladof. There is a ridge line that would separate the index finger from the rest if you held it with your right hand. The trigger is attached at the back to the rest of the grip, unlike all of the others.
Torgue- Similar to Vladof, but the trigger is in a rectangular opening, like the Jakobs grip. The opening is just large enough for the trigger, with no visible room between the bottom of the trigger and the end of the opening.

M2. Pistols

Vladof- Again, very strait lines, no curves. The opening for the trigger is very round, however. Looks almost like a circle around the trigger.
Jakobs- Rounded grip and oval-like opening for the trigger.
Maliwan- Straight up and down for both sides of the grip. There is no opening for the trigger, it instead is directly attached from the right side to the left of the grip. Simplistic.
Tediore- Ridiculously huge box-ish outline of the grip. Looks very difficult to hold (weird angles for your wrist).
Dahl- There is a ridge line like on the assault rifle grip. Thin rectangle opening for the trigger.
Torgue- Thick slanted piece at the bottom of the grip going up from left to right, Thick rectangle opening.
Hyperion- Futuristic looking. All of your fingers would go in the opening for the trigger. Ridge line for your thumb.
Bandit- Appears as though, discounting the trigger, you could hold this grip from either side. Two different pieces could be the handle. You will know it when you see it.

M3. Rocket Launchers

Tediore- Very large rectangle outline of the grip (similar the the pistol grip). There are three vertical pieces of this grip: both edges of the outline and the grip itself.
Maliwan- Curves, lots of curves. You will know it when you see it.
Torgue- Two vertical hand holds and a shoulder rest directly behind them.
Vladof- Two vertical hand holds, no shoulder rest.
Bandit- Grip is almost directly attached to a blade in front of the launcher, and appears to be wrapped in a type of cast. Shoulder rest far behind the hand hold.

M4. Shotguns
These are the hardest of the grips to describe, all have the same basic shape. You must go off of textures.

Torgue- large dents all over the grip.
Hyperion- Small holes all over the grip.
Tediore- thin diagonal lines going down from left to right go across the entire grip. Looks like it is made of carbon fiber.
Bandit- Think vertical lines cover the grip.
Jakobs- Has a bit of a semi-oval design on it.

M5. Snipers

Dahl- Trademark ridge line separating your fingers.
Vladof- The thumb has its own hole in this grip. Trigger opening is a rectangle. The other fingers are unprotected.
Hyperion- Thumb hole like Vladof, but the rest of the fingers are behind the outline of the grip.
Maliwan- Simple grip with trigger in front. No outline forming an opening for the trigger.
Jakobs- Same as maliwan but it does have a small opening for the trigger instead of it being exposed.

M6. SMGs

Maliwan- Smooth curved outline
Dahl- The trigger is in a circular looking opening (the actual shape is a Hexagon).
Tediore- the front hand grip looks like a joystick for an old video game. Large box around back hand grip.
Hyperion- Back hand grip has a large slant going up from left to right. Front grip looks a bit sharp.
Bandit- Front and back hand grips are attached. Front hand grip is unrealistically large. Back hand grip appears to be wrapped in type of cast.

[b]M7a.Dahl Stocks[/b]
Assault rifles- Trapezoid shaped stock with section taken out of the middle (irregular pentagon)
Snipers- Section of the stock is partially separated from the rest, held on by two small cylindrical shapes. Back of the stock spreads out, looking a bit like airplane wings
SMGs- Stock connected to the body of the weapon with a single cylindrical piece. lever shaped mechanism jutting out between the shoulder rest and section attaching the stock to the rest of the weapon


M8.Assault Rifles
Dahl- Trapezoid shaped stock with section taken out of the middle (irregular pentagon)
Bandit- Shoulder rest is in the form of a tripod
Jakobs- The shoulder rest is a block of wood. Literally
Vladof- Thin metal rods attach the shoulder rest to the rest of the gun
Torgue- Roughly trapezoid shaped. Two thin belt-like straps wrap around stock

Dahl- Section of the stock is partially separated from the rest, help on by two small cylindrical shapes. Back of the stock spreads out, looking a bit like airplane wings
Vladof- Stock is attached with two thin metal poles. Looks like a sideways ‘L’ or ‘7’
Hyperion- Short stock with the shoulder rest as a different color
Maliwan- Crease down the center, Shoulder rest is rectangular
Jakobs- Short, simple stock. Attached at the back bottom of the gun instead of directly off the end.

Dahl- Stock connected to the body of the weapon with a single cylindrical piece. Lever shaped mechanism jutting out between the shoulder rest and section attaching the stock to the rest of the weapon
Maliwan- Crease down the center, thick and without any gaps in the stock.
Tediore- thin rectangle with a triangle shape sticking out the bottom
Hyperion- Many overlapping pieces of metal cover the stock. Attaches to the grip leaving a huge gap for the thumb

M11.ShotgunsTorgue- Oval shaped opening for the thumb on the hand grip
Hyperion- Hand grip and stock go upwards from left to right in a diagonal line
Tediore- Stock is rectangular. Large opening for thumb on hand grip
Bandit- Stock attached by a metal pole. Hand grip has a nut on a screw at the bottom
Jakobs- Slightly curved hand grip, no shoulder rest.

N0. The math stuff.
Full run down
N1. Element Stacking
N2. Critical Stacking(By Sljm)
(Click me)
N2. Skill Stacking
N3. Weapon/Gun Damage Stacking

O0. Shields
Most information gotten from Sljm(Click me)
O1. Parts
O2. Benefits

P0. Health Gate Abuse
P1. Basics
The basics of this mechanic is fairly simple, as long as you are above 50% of your total HP you can not be one shot.
Sometimes you’ll get a slight invulnerability for a second the moment you get the gate, the easiest and most common way to abuse it is moxxi weapons and their healing effects.

P2. Character specific HG abuse
You’ll see this a lot when watching people raid, while the parts on the shield might change here is the list of the coms and the shield parts.
The idea here is to lower your health to as low as possible so you can regen at least 51% off a single tick of a class mod.
Gaige does not have a com that helps with this.
Shield: Op8 White rarity turtle shield(Parts: Tediore/bandit/Maliwan)
Coms that can do it with this shield:
Titan/Legendary Titan
Nurse/Legendary nurse

Axton requires these parts and com level:
Pointman/Legendary Pointman level 67(bar off) 69(bar on)

Zero requires:
Shield: Torgue/Bandit/Maliwan-Ele
LVL 69 Survivor(BAR)
Lvl 70 Survivor(No BAR)
Y0.Useful Links
Blood Bath Resource Guide
Grenade Damage Resource Guide
Why chain reaction is amazing
Sal’s Broken offhand
1-DoT Bug explained
Splash damage mechanics
Breakdown of damage mechanics
The Wilhelm Trials
Q0. Video Tutorials
Q1. Melee Krieg
Q2. LBT DT Gaige
Q3. Gaige OP8 Gear guide

X0. Other DDD guides

X1.Character Builders
Axton how to
Axton Raiding
Axton Gemslag guide
Maya how to
Maya raiding
Gaige How to
Sal How to
Krieg how to
Zero how to

X2. Weapon testing
Hyperion Grips vs Bandit

X2. Skill testingDuty Calls
Z0. Contributors.
Dark Souls
The Dominus
Bahroo by extension

Perfect gear examples
What do Dahl Grips do for Dahl Weapons?
Best Weapon and Shied Variants
[Guide] Top Gear for Gaige, revamped (WIP)
DDD: Wilhelm's skills for Organics
Axton vs terrammorphis
Lootology 101 - A compilation of community guides
Part Spotters Guides