[Dear GBX] RE: New Rank Caps, You Mon---

I still don’t think raising the level cap while XP boosters are present is enforcing addiction.

And I am talking from hands on experience with addiction, too. I am fully aware what it is and am especially aware what it’s like in video games.

This is just kind of reaching.

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If that’s what you read, then that’s not my intention.

If you have the symptoms described above, or others then I implore you to seek help! Addiction is treatable!

The difference is that when most Players went from 41 to 100 there were no Boosts in the Cash Shop.
Yes…there were exp boosts

Further, CR used to be a way of judging how well experienced the team you got matched with is with Battleborn. Now that only applies in PvE.
There is an extremely simple way to still see CR in PvP matches. Almost everyone knows the trick so this is a moot point.

In PvP you can see CR after the match is started, but you’re still locked in to that team now.
I see you responded to your prior statement with your own counter to the statement. When all is said and done, people can still check CR as a source of skill level. Removing CR from the very first screen eliminated a lot of the early leavers - which was needed

There’s less justification for Ranks now than there used to be, and now the Compulsion Loop can be exploited for Profit.
I heard that Gearbox will be giving out loot packs, etc. heavily as you go up the ranks. Other than loot packs, and gear, what do you want?

That’s not ok.
You are basically arguing that grinding for levels just for the sake of grinding for levels is bad. This is pure opinion and not a fact. i know a ton of people who love to grind levels just for the sake of grinding levels. Who made you the video game police as to say what is and isn’t okay?

Grinding for levels has been a phenomena in video games since…i dont know…ive been playing games since for ever and I know that the grinding concept really started to truly take off during the early MMORPGs of the time. People like to grind. it’s a measure of their own progression…internally…externally. You name it. Do I love to grind just for the sake of grinding with no real progression? Not really. But your argument can be applied to so many major competitive and non competitive video games of the modern era.

And there are other ways to distribute Loot and Titles, the Ops have proven that beyond any doubt. Better ways as well, since they tie back to Story, Challenge, and Experiences. And since there’s NOT a Pay2Win, they can’t be exploited for Profit.
Sure, I agree.

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It’s not enforcing, it’s exploiting it by Profiting from it.

You don’t make someone an addict, they just are, which I’m sure you know.

But if you produce a product that is addictive, then the least you can do is avoid the more exploitative components of it.

If the new Levels had any meaning to them, I.E. opened up new Content, added more Abilities, etc… then at least there’d be a reason to Boost progress toward them. You’re trying to unlock that Content or those Abilities faster.

This is just a Compulsion Loop however.

No there were not Boosts. In fact, there was not even a Cash Shop at launch, nor for the first several months.

As for grinding being bad, that’s by far the lesser of the evils I’m talking about.

Grinding for the sake of grinding has problems, but I’m not saying they shouldn’t add it.

I’m saying they shouldn’t add it and keep the boosts.

I would prefer they not add it at all, but that’s never going to happen and I’m not rallying for that.

I’m stepping in preemptively now - this debate, like many before it, is bound to bring out very polarized opinions which people will be passionate about, and that’s ok PROVIDED you partake in this debate in a polite and mature manner.

I don’t want to have to come back to this thread and lock it, I don’t want any of my fellow moderators to. So please, people, keep this debate mature and work through the various points of the debate with all due respect.


You may see no purpose in the levels/ranks, you may adore them, either way you are all entitled to opinions and these forums are a space to explain your opinion provided you abide by the forum rules (which I have included for people’s convenience and so that people can check if they feel a post might breach them).


Remember though, passionate debates sometimes require you stand up, walk away and come back after a break with a clear head. Comments made in haste or without thinking have been known to require actions be taken which all parties involved wish hadn’t been made to happen.

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And I also think that this might be a lazy way of gearbox to add progression. It’s an artificial and false sense of progression.

So I agree with you there.

However, it goes back to the “casual” vs “competitive” gamer mindset. Shockingly, I know a lot of people who just like to zone out and grind levels for no reason at all.

I don’t think that makes them psychologically flawed though. People have different interests.

Side note: Phrases like “exploiting addiction for profit” are powerful, and not to be thrown around lightly. Anyway:

The increased level cap has always been a thing that Gearbox has added later on, like with Borderlands and the Raid on Digistuct Peak. Games like these are grindy, sure, and the XP boosts will possibly be bought by players to alleviate large chunks of said grind, but that’s not a big deal. Plenty of other game companies, had they been in the same boat as Gearbox, would have done things much worse. The new playable characters are free, the DLCs so far are well made, cheap and highly replayable - any other company would have skimped on the quality and made you pay through the nose for it.

Players have for quite a while been asking for some kind of prestige mode. Now the devs stated that this would be hard for them to do because of the way the unlocking mechanics work, but the increased level cap is their compromise. The XP boosters aren’t stopping normal players from grinding it out like they always do, they aren’t required in any way, they’re just there for players with a bit of extra platinum to give them a boost. (And they’re also likely a replacement for the double XP weekends / lootpocalypse events that I can sadly see dissapearing in future.)

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I agree.

But the difference is that when Levels were added to Borderlands, new Abilities came along with them. The Levels served a Primary Purpose of Gating new Abilities. That’s much better design.

Huh? This is a quasi competitive moba pvp game though with class balance. You can’t just throw new abilities around everywhere like in a PvE only open world rpg of borderlands. It’s better to work on balancing out the current set of skills.

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What, and the bonus loot packs / skins / other unlocks don’t count? Personally, making progress in a game even without abundant rewards is still fun for me.

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Exactly!

Which really only leaves gating content behind the new Levels. But since the Levels don’t Gate Abilities, Gating Content would also be Counter Intuitive.

So if all that’s left is Grinding, don’t try to Profit off of the Grinding, especially when there are people who won’t be able to help themselves from it.

There are plenty of other ways to distribute that Loot and those Titles, like increasing Credit Drop rate (which they’re doing in PvP), the new Daily Quests, or more.

Selling the boosts would be no different then if they were selling Credits or Drop Rate increases, all serve to distribute Loot faster if that’s what you’re considering Content.

And here, in Battleborn, levels gets us more gear - so it’s really the same, because gear enhances and sometimes change character abilities.

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i hear you and i know where you are coming from.

We share a lot of the same viewpoints on this I think, however I feel like I differ slightly in the “what is good for the consumer/ bad for the consumer” mentality.

This is a topic Zesban, that has been very hotly debated in many other games I play. And surprisingly, what I found out is that there are a ton of people who just like to farm for the sake of farming. And it doesn’t make them any worse or better than me. And, if I can be specific - I tolerate it as long as I feel as my own needs within said video game are being met.

Except that the gear you get from levels you can get without leveling. There’s nothing special about it.

The only special thing they’re tying to Levels are Titles, which could be tied to Challenges or Daily Quests instead.

The difference being they don’t sell boosts to how quickly you get through Challenges. They don’t sell Credits directly, though they may start selling Credit boosts as well. They don’t sell Gear directly. and you have ways of getting all of these without Levels.

The boosts are to boost XP progress.

But why? As @jaden374 and @matrixltu said, balancing new skills in a PvP game is much harder than in a PvE game. Balancing legendary gear items which have unique abilities is marginally easier, so therefore the grind rewards still unlock new content and keep the game interesting.

I personally, however, intend to keep playing this game for quite some time, regardless of new content, so the increased command ranks for me function simply as a better way of tracking progress. Simple as that.

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And in reference to the last sentence of my last post, I think it would be wise zesban to at the very least see what the full winter roll out entails. See if your needs are being met. And then address it - rather than speculate. :sunny:

And it’s great that’s all the CR increase is for you.

Once again, I personally don’t see a need for it, but I’m not even gonna try to argue for that not being added in. As I said in my Post, there’s a difference between increasing the CR, and doing so while selling the XP Boosts.

While I think there’s a downside to increasing the CR for the sole sake of having a higher CR, that’s not outright exploitative.

It’s selling the Boosts for Cash that is.

If they even sold the Boosts for credits instead, it’d all be in the framework of the game. But selling them for Profit. That’s different.

So what’s special in borderlands when you get those few extra +%damage to x skill?

I think you are just nitpicking. And you only want to see what you want to see.

And you eating food to stay alive. Well. Yes. That’s the purpose. If I want an apple I will eat an apple, if you want to eat a steak, you will buy that. Damn those shops, exploiting our addiction to food! Exploiters!

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